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 Post subject: Big Nerfs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:20 pm 
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http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/new- ... warleader/

War Axe to 3 mana.
Innervate to 1 mana crystal gained instead of 2.
Spreading Plague to 6 mana.
Murloc Warleader changed to +2 Attack (no health boost).
Hex to 4 mana.

Hints that Ice Block is slated for HOF when the next year rolls around.

There was a time when War Axe needed to be 2 mana for Warrior to threaten the board in the early rounds. That time has long since passed.
Innervate should never have been printed in the first place.
Spreading Plague makes sense.
Murloc Warleader. So happy with this nerf. Because I hate murloc paladins and I want them to die.
Hex to 4. Whateva.

Ice Block to HOF? Oh, happy days.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Nerfs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:32 pm 
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So ice block gone is ok, it's kinda of annoying but mage better get some good healing that isn't a legendary.

Hex at 4 seems like a random nerf. hex is strong but shaman is pretty terrible right now. Where's the jade nerf? Innervate doesn't count as a nerf to jade

warleader nerf is fine I guess. My murloc decks are more midrange and sometimes use coldlight thingy anyway.

Spreading plague nerf is good.

Innervate nerf is very sad because it kills a lot of fun decks. There's probably better ways to nerf aggro druid

War axe nerf is completly baffling and makes warrior arena abysmal and aggro decks in constructed even stronger.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Nerfs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:36 pm 
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The nerfs are aimed at more long-term changes. They want to make shaman weaker at silencing and single-target removal and Fiery War Axe basically means no other low-cost warrior weapon can be relevant in future sets.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Nerfs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:37 pm 
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They don't need top make a better low cost weapon.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Nerfs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:02 pm 
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I am really annoyed at War Axe nerf. I think it was the most uncalled-for nerf in the history of the game.

To be honest, I am actually fine with some pushed basic cards being near autoincludes in their respective class. It gives new players somewhere to start their deckbuilding, keeps complexity in check and contributes to class identity; the best comparison for me is my belief that most blue decks in Magic should run basic Islands. Pushed basic cards like War Axe are building blocks and workhorses for their respective classes, not their main course, and thus them being autoincludes is in my view actually a good thing.

It is different with Innervate because I think the effect is actually bad for the game (which trumps the argument above). But I wish they actually reworked the card entirely, because the thing they have replaced it with is basically nothing. Good that they nerfed Spreading Plague; card is a fundamental mistake in my view.

Murloc nerf is okay, I guess; the way health boost effects work in Hearthstone is weird and counterintuitive. Hex nerf -- eh, so, okay.

I am actually happy if Ice Block gets HOF'd. That is one card that shouldn't be everpresent in the game's flagship format.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Nerfs
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:32 am 
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I am really annoyed at War Axe nerf. I think it was the most uncalled-for nerf in the history of the game.

It is arguably the strongest card in the game. It is part of a tier 1 deck (pirates) that has been a tier 1 deck for 3 expansions in a row (KotFT, Un'Goro, MSoG), survived a nerf specifically directed against it (Buccaneer), and the printing of multiple cards dedicated to hosing it (Golakka Crawler, Tar Creeper, and Gluttonous Ooze). The deck is linear, uninteractive, and has highly polarized matchups. It has been a 2 of in every warrior deck ever made. People may even continue to play it after the nerf. Due to its card type being horrible to draw in multiples, it pushes out other warrior weapons because none of them are close to its power level. There have been 9 warrior weapons printed since classic, and only one of them (death's bite) has seen play. To summarize, war axe is overpowered, a crucial piece of a powerful, persistent, and unfun deck, and it actively hinders design space. The nerf is VERY much called for.

One thing I worry about with the war axe nerf is that warrior has such a weak hero power that it often depended on an overpowered war axe as a crutch to make its decks playable. Sure, pirate warrior was overpowered with 2cmc axe, but this pushes the possibility of some sort of DK rotface enrage warrior even further out of reach, and don't even talk about arena. Hopefully the nerfed war axe makes blizzard more willing to print pushed warrior cards in the future.

Innervate is similarly a very powerful and generic card that maybe shouldn't have been printed in the first place. There's a reason mtg stopped printing dark ritual over a decade ago. I like how the change nerfs both of the overpowered druid decks (jade and aggro) that have been taking over ladder.

According to blizzard, the reason they chose spreading plague to nerf over ultimate infestation was because their analytics determined that it was the most powerful card in jade druid. Since I don't have the data myself, I'm inclined to take their word for it. I do wish that they had nerfed jade idol though, because I think infinite jades is a fundamentally unfun and uninteractive mechanic, and I think that it's also the root of the problem. An ultimate infestation deck that couldn't shuffle jade idols would have a definite weakness to decks that could hold out against it until it fatigued.

Murloc paladin was a tier 1 deck even before it got 1cmc annoy-o-tron. It was really stupid how a minion-based aggro deck was also randomly really strong against sweepers because warleader buffed everything's health.

Hex nerf is a couple months too late, it should have come during the Karazhan shamanstone meta. I 100% agree with what they said about it being a color pie violation, there's no excuse for the class that has the best ways to deal with wide boards to also have one of the cheapest answers to single big minions. If they hadn't done this now, they would have had to do it eventually.

Ice block going to hall of fame would change the way people build mage decks. Historically, mage decks have either been tempo decks, ice block decks, or decks that relied on Reno to make up for their lack of class healing. This might be why they decided to give mage a death knight that grants lifesteal, even though it's so far out of mage's color pie. It remains to be seen whether she'll be good enough to carry control mage decks if they ban ice block.

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