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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Wouldnt streaming be hard because the other player can just search his stream and counter play and win.


There aren't that many people who "snipe" streamers, contrary to popular belief.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:32 am 
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Wouldnt streaming be hard because the other player can just search his stream and counter play and win.

In a universe where everyone cheats, sure.

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viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16077

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Wouldnt streaming be hard because the other player can just search his stream and counter play and win.


what the heck is this comment even doing in this thread? I reread the last two pages to see who's talking about streaming and I don't see anything.

But maybe you don't mean stream-sniping but rather gathering intel on someone's build? Is that what you mean?


anyway, SithLord and I are lucky cuz when you have a mug like ours, people don't really snipe our streams when we include a video feed.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Wouldnt streaming be hard because the other player can just search his stream and counter play and win.


what the heck is this comment even doing in this thread? I reread the last two pages to see who's talking about streaming and I don't see anything.

But maybe you don't mean stream-sniping but rather gathering intel on someone's build? Is that what you mean?


anyway, SithLord and I are lucky cuz when you have a mug like ours, people don't really snipe our streams when we include a video feed.


I can attest, your face is the rough equivalent to a porcupine's quills.

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You want some? Come get some. You don't like me? Bite me.

Day 1,000 of the never-ending Vert monarchy.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16077

Magic's a simple game, 2 people take turns playing cards and in the end Divinevert wins 2-0...


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:34 pm 
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It's a great defensive mechanism


....to getting laid

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:39 pm 
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It's a great defensive mechanism


....to getting laid

Image

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You want some? Come get some. You don't like me? Bite me.

Day 1,000 of the never-ending Vert monarchy.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16077

Magic's a simple game, 2 people take turns playing cards and in the end Divinevert wins 2-0...


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:14 pm 
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divinevert wrote:
Wouldnt streaming be hard because the other player can just search his stream and counter play and win.


what the heck is this comment even doing in this thread? I reread the last two pages to see who's talking about streaming and I don't see anything.

But maybe you don't mean stream-sniping but rather gathering intel on someone's build? Is that what you mean?


anyway, SithLord and I are lucky cuz when you have a mug like ours, people don't really snipe our streams when we include a video feed.


I can attest, your face is the rough equivalent to a porcupine's quills.


LMAO. I don't actually stream. My computer sucks too much.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:02 pm 
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I believe that Esper draw-go is the most interactive deck in Magic Duels, here's my list:

2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Isolated Chapel
3 x Island
1 x Swamp
1 x Plains
4 x Evolving Wilds
3 x Aether Hub
1 x Westvale Abbey
Total Lands: 25

2 x Anguished Unmaking
3 x Fatal Push
2 x Confirm Suspicions
2 x Commit
3 x Glimmer of Genius
3 x Broken Concentration
2 x Scatter to the Winds
2 x Censor
2 x Blessed Alliance
2 x Pull From Tomorrow
3 x Telling Time
Total Instants: 26

1 x Disciple of the Ring
1 x Torrential Gearhulk
Total Creatures: 2

2 x Languish
1 x Yahenni's Expertise
1 x Declaration in Stone
Total Sorceries: 4

1 x Cruel Reality
2 x Dynavolt Tower
Total Artifacts/Enchantments: 3


Last edited by opponent on Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:26 pm, edited 20 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:59 pm 
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Burn it

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:08 pm 
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I find it hard to believe Esper control is the best deck in duels. There are plenty of anti-control tools available to other decks, the most important of which are vehicles, planeswalkers and Scrapheap Scrounger. Those place tremendous stress on Esper to have the right answers, and more often than not they will not have it. For your list in particular it has only two sweepers, which means you often won't have it against aggressive decks. Plus so many cards trade one for one, and you have few ways to actually win which means your opponent gets plenty of time to draw what they need. Eventually they'll resolve something and win. I could easily envisage my Jund Ramp deck for example playing patiently until it draws and resolves a Gaea's Revenge, against which you only have one answer - Blessed Alliance - but it's for that exact reason that the Jund deck has Never // Return and Oath of Liliana. I could also imagine an aggro deck doing something like T1 Expedition Envoy T2 Consul's Lieutenant T3 Aethersphere Harvester, and again you would be on the back foot. The opponent is far more likely to start with a 1-drop than you are to have Fatal Push in hand with mana to cast it.

Is Esper good, yes, and it's got its good matchups (particularly other control decks that do not run counterspells), but its got its weaknesses as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Yeah I tried Verts Espère deck a bunch and that decklist was tight af, could not get consistent results at all. I've had a better time with Mardu or Abzan or even 4 colour Control. I realize all of these lose to control decks with counters but they do great against everything else

Not an Espère fan

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:50 pm 
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I reworded the intro and my list due to Banedon's points, which I agree with. I ended up dropping Languish and the PWs from the list, so my deck is on the extreme side of draw-go now and definitely not for everyone.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:24 pm 
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So Westvale Abbey is an all-star in the mirror. Can't believe I hadn't played it in Esper before. Cut down to a greedy 24 lands in order to add the third Fatal Push.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:44 am 
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Can't say I would agree with the changes.

5 wincons (Hulk, Abbey, 2 Towers, Cruel Reality) is on the low end of acceptable IMO; 24 lands WITH Abbey are just too few (especially since you will run out of Basics to fetch with Wilds quickly), and not running Languish gets you killed against opposing go-wide strategies and aggro (Declaration helps a little, but not enough IMO).

I'd cut some number of Disperse, Telling Time and Declaration in Stone to up the land count (at least 25, ideally 26 or 27) and reintroduce Languish.
Also, you should strongly consider running Disciple of the Ring; that card is maybe the best finisher for control decks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Modulo,

I'll change the list and give it a try. Early sage/unmaking on a tower was usually a loss so I think putting back Languish and adding Disciple will help.

I haven't missed the walkers nearly as much as I thought I would. Jace and Sorin are often approximated in a single turn by Pull (since good opponents will answer PW's). What are your thoughts on having walkers and towers in the same deck with Disciple? Or would you recommend dropping towers altogether in this meta?

As always, your feedback is appreciated!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:04 am 
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opponent wrote:
Modulo,

I'll change the list and give it a try. Early sage/unmaking on a tower was usually a loss so I think putting back Languish and adding Disciple will help.

I haven't missed the walkers nearly as much as I thought I would. Jace and Sorin are often approximated in a single turn by Pull (since good opponents will answer PW's). What are your thoughts on having walkers and towers in the same deck with Disciple? Or would you recommend dropping towers altogether in this meta?

As always, your feedback is appreciated!


Admittedly I haven't played with Towers mich this season; to me they seemed too slow vs. Aggro and too low-impact vs. Control. You have better choices for your wincon-slots IMO.
Cutting most of the PWs is probably fine as long as you have enough wincons without them since they take up similar spots to Pull -give you a bunch of card advantage, but are rather clunky. Personally I still like to run a few, but you aren't married to them by any stretch.

Disciple works well with or without other wincons, as long as you have enough spells to feed her (which you do). She is able to protect other wincons, while these can help her close the game.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:40 pm 
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I played a about ten games with 27 lands & without Telling Time... midgame flooding was noticeable along with top-decking the wrong type of removal for a given board state. I dropped to 25 lands, pulled a Fatal Push, and added in Telling Time and the deck is running smoothly. When I run out of basics, I discard Evolving Wilds to Pull, animate it using Scatter, or shuffle after Telling Time, so they are always gainfully employed.

Thanks again for your advice, Disciple locks games down and is great after you have been feeding a tower for a few turns. The towers supplement removal and pressure walkers, I'm not sure these effects can be replaced for 3 mana. Also, they stress most OP's limited removal options that are often reserved for Cruel Reality.

I'd like some more feedback to keep improving the list. If you or anyone else reading this doesn't mind taking it for a spin, please report the results here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:16 am 
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I generally think the deck has enough ways to pressure Walkers even without Towers (Unmaking, Commit, counterspells). That being said, maybe running Towers is correct alongside Cruel Reality (accelerates the burn clock, helps remove small things you don't care about) and Telling Time (spells you can always play to generate energy). It's possible I'm undervaluing them, could be YMMV material as well.

Aside from that point, the list looks good, I'd make 2 small changes though:

1) Cutting the third Push is a mistake IMO; the card is incredibly important in almost every game. I'd rather ditch the third Blessed Alliance or the Declaration; probably the former.

2) The deck needs the second Swamp if it wants Languish online t4 reliably (so that Evolving Wilds can fetch a Swamp even if you have one in hand/on the field as your first B source). If you want to keep the Abbey in (which I believe is correct), there's 3 options:
a) Go up to 26 lands ditching the other card mentioned under 1). Probably the cleanest way to hit your mana thresholds and keeping your manabase intact, but it might put too much pressure on your removal suite.
b) Cut an Island. This makes hitting UU turn 3 unnecessarily harder though.
c) Cut one Shambling Vent. This accelerates your manabase, but comes at the cost of a card that can provide chip damage.
Personally I'd lean towards c), but I don't know how often you end up activating a Shambling Vent.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:04 am 
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Agree 100%, swapping Vent and Alliance for Swamp and Push. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:40 am 
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i hope Esper gets dick cancer

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