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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:46 pm 
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Esper Decklists


Black Cards


Blue Cards


White Cards


Multi-Colour Cards


Colourless Cards


Non-Basic Lands

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Last edited by Garren_Windspear on Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:33 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:05 pm 
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Total Control Mill

2x Languish
2x Displacement Wave
2x Tragic Arrogance


This is where I am starting with this. I noticed some nice zombie type creatures (one of which puts a 2/2 depending on how many in GRAVEYARD, not in play like most of the others). Plus fleshbag marauders= easy liliana and some removal to go along with the mass removal. I think I will be primarily blue for the control and black i will try my best to not have any double black or greater costs except for liliana. In blue of course, you have tutelage, countermand, and that one that yanks instants sorceries and puts rest in graveyard.

Just brainstorming around the top 3 cards above to counter the obvious aggro meta that will occur due to grinding for gold.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:59 pm 
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You need a lot of card draw to mill somebody with Tutelage. You can't just count on dragging out the game over 20 turns. Well, maybe you could, but doesn't that sound boring? So I'd take your 3 cards, add Scryfish and lots of card draw, some counters and spot removal.

I'm not sure how good Displacement Wave will be in such a deck. It's a Sorcery, so you won't have much mana to counter the recasts next turn. I think it needs some etb creatures for the full benefit. Something like Harbinger of the Tides or Separatist Voidmage, but I think the deck you want is better off killing stuff instead of delaying it. Gilt-Leaf Winnower may be what you're looking for.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:34 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
You need a lot of card draw to mill somebody with Tutelage. You can't just count on dragging out the game over 20 turns. Well, maybe you could, but doesn't that sound boring? So I'd take your 3 cards, add Scryfish and lots of card draw, some counters and spot removal.

I'm not sure how good Displacement Wave will be in such a deck. It's a Sorcery, so you won't have much mana to counter the recasts next turn. I think it needs some etb creatures for the full benefit. Something like Harbinger of the Tides or Separatist Voidmage, but I think the deck you want is better off killing stuff instead of delaying it. Gilt-Leaf Winnower may be what you're looking for.


Agreed on all points except displacement wave has it's strengths versus tokens, turns 3 (where languish, and the white sweepers cant hit) for the fast aggro decks, and also tech against planeswalkers. So, since you are right about it not actually killing things (except tokens) I think it should be at a one of at least. Forgot name of the card, but the five mana white creature that exiles creatures that do combat damage to you is better than i first thought. I thought it just got one, but it is any and all so you could flash him in to block and kill their 3/3 and then it exiles rest.

Was reading in an orzhov thread that black is probably not going to play nice with blue since sorcerys versus instants. Makes me sad because I am a blue player and yes I like the drag it out kind of games. I played that trolling deck "unmemorable" (with my own tweaks) in 2015.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:42 pm 
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I am thinking more on this and think maybe Blue/White will be the best mill control deck so the counterspells dont interfere with black's sorcerys but of course you lose languish. And to the naysayers of mill, this year there is no Kozileck or Elixir to reshuffle and altho countermand is pricey at 2 colorless 2 blue it mills. Tutelage and also the blue spell talent of the telepath hits 7 cards even if you dont get to cast the free instant/sorceries. White brings to the table technically 4 sweepers.. 2x Hixus, Prison Warden and Tragic Arrogance.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:40 pm 
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Talent of the Telepath is not a good card in this environment imo. With this card you wanna hit removal or card draw. These are cards for slower control decks and mill is good against these already. Against aggro it will most likely do nothing or maybe a wasted creature buff.

Countermand is useful because it counters every kind of spell. Against creatures I'd prefer Bone to Ash though, as it draws you a card to work with, which in turn will probably mill your opponent for at least 2 anyway.

White and black are about equal in sweepers if you ask me. White has more, black has the more reliable one (removal ruins your day with Hixus, Prison Warden and you're not playing many creatures to bait it out of their hands). I'd look for other benefits. Black has decent card draw, but I'm not so sure if you can afford the life loss. Maybe choose the better early game defense.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:46 pm 
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Esper Control

1-drop
None

2-drop (7)
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Sigiled Starfish
3x Reave Soul

3-drop (11)
3x Anchor to the Aether
3x Sphinx's Tutelage
3x Hydrolash
2x Calculated Dismissal

4-drop (7)
2x Languish
2x Suppression Bonds
3x Inspiration

5-drop (5)
2x Tragic Arrogance
1x Disciple of the Ring
2x Unholy Hunger

6-drop (1)
1x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

Land (29)
4x Orzhov Guildgate
4x Dimir Guildgate
2x Azorious Guildgate
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Drowned Catacombs
2x Glacial Fortress
5 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Islands

Manabase
18 sources
16 sources
14 sources

Mana Curve
0-7-11-7-5-1

Some calculations
29 lands gives us 94% chance of getting 2 lands in the opening 7 and 91% to draw a third land by turn 3
18 sources of black gives us 87% chance to hit by turn 4 (languish)
16 white sources gives us 86% chance to hit by turn 5 (tragic arrogance)
14 blue sources gives us 80% chance to hit by turn 5 and 89% chance to hit single by turn 2

Esper evaluation

Pros:
• Access to good draw effects (Inspiration, Read the Bones, Bitter Revelation)
• Access to all board wipes (languish + tragic arrogance)
• Access to the best answers in the game, e.g. suppression bonds (planeswalkers), unholy hunger (unconditional removal)

Cons:
• Usually going to be playing control in every match-up
• Not many win conditions
• Bad manabase (many tap lands and bad fixing overall)
• Requires a higher-level of skill (not wasting resources)

Overall: This deck is fairly balanced. It offers a very powerful late game but you have to survive the early game to get there. With access to flexible removal and solid answers Esper looks like the best flavor for control decks we have access to with the current card pool. Access to white opens up many more options than traditional control decks and I would recommend using Esper unless you are running a pure mill deck.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:56 pm 
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1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Reave Soul
4 x Read the Bones
4 x Inspiration
1 x Archangel of Tithes
4 x Countermand
2 x Suppression Bonds
2 x Languish
2 x Tragic Arrogance
1 x Disciple of the Ring
3 x Possessed Skaab
3 x Unholy Hunger
2 x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

18 Blue Sources / 26 Black Sources / 7 white sources
12 creatures / 24 Non creature spells / 24 Land

2 x Azorius Guildgate
2 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Orzhov Guildgate
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Glacial Fortress

6 x Swamp
4 x Island
2 x Plains

My attempt at an esper control deck. Do you guys think I should get rid of the reave soul/read the bones/unholy hunger and throw in sigil/claustraphobia/ and more suppression bonds and make it into an enchant / control deck? Since I would be getting rid of a lot of instants I might get rid of inspiration instead of read the bones since holding mana open wouldn't be a thing anymore. That would give me a total of 12 enchants to make angels with + some controlish monsters. My only concern is the early game with 2 x perilous myr and 3 x reave soul being the only early defense so far. I am hoping the draw will let me hit my land drops and fix any issues I have with that and keep my hand full of threats. The main finishers are fliers + shadows of the past dinging my opponent for 2 each end step if I have mana open. If I go the enchant route I would need to replace some creatures like the skab with the flying lord. Let me know which direction you guys think I should take it.

Edit: just realised that shadows of the past isn't' as viable as 3/10 of my creatures exile themselves after hitting the gy. I might swap these for 2 more perilous myr.

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Last edited by binderato on Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:02 am 
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I don't understand shadows of the past there.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:05 am 
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I was gonna use it as a way to ding damage through like obelisk of alara last year hitting for 2 but at a cost of more mana than that. I found out after posting that my creatures exiled themselves. Meaning I would need 4/7 remaining creatures to be in the gy for it to go off. My bad :(.

Edit: other than that what suggestions do you have for the deck Mjack and do you think i should go removal based or enchant based.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:17 am 
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I don't know? I'm not really posting decks because I don't have my hands on the game and so I can't test anything. It's very easy to look at an aggro card and evaluate it, but for control decks it's entirely meta dependant. My kneejerk reaction is that your curve is too high, but since the game isn't out on steam yet, I'm not sure what would be good or not.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:03 pm 
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my buw deck is an enchantment control deck heres the list, feel free to suggest changes

white
4 Nimbus Wings (maybe dont need 4 but they are more likeley to be drawn, you really want to use them with blood-cursed knight)
4 Heliods Pilgrim (lets you fish for control or nimbus wings if u have blood cursed knight already)
4 supression bonds (supression bonds)
2 sigil of the empty throne (simply wins games)
6 Plains (...land)

black
3 blightcaster (amazing card that lets you remove cards you may not want to use large removal on)
3 unholy hunger (more removal)
2 Kothophed, Soul hoarder (usually wins games)
6 Swamps (...land)

blue
4 Claustraphobia (control, also aura synergy)
1 Calculated Dismissal (ealy game counter, only one because kindof dies out lategame)
3 inspiration (some draw, maybe replace with jhessian theif to combo with nimbus wings more)
2 Countermand (removal for instants and sorceries that calculated dismissal cant provide late game)
1 Alhammarret, High Arbiter (game winner as well as locks your opponent out of win cons
6 Islands (...land)

multicolor
3 Blood-Cursed Knight (almost always will be triggered with the control enchantments, can also become sudo baneslayer angel with nimbus wings
2 Drowned Catacomb (...dual land)
2 Isolated Chapel (...dual land)
2 Glacial Fortress (...dual land)

maybe the murk lurker could work in this deck, but i haven't tried yet


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:52 pm 
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TIL Esper is not UWR.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:29 pm 
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Come on. Someone come up with a great creatureless deck like the one in Grixis thread!! Mainly due to problem cards like Gaea's Revenge or Erebos I believe Esper will be the right way to go. I am 10 boosters from having everything yet zero tragic arrogance.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Esper Creatureless (kinda) Control:

2 Mana:
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 x Shadows of the Past
2 x Reprisal
4 x Celestial Flare
3 x Telling Time
4 x Disperse
4 x Reave Soul

3 Mana:
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
1 x Solemn Offering
3 x Read the Bones

4 Mana:
2 x Inspiration
4 x Countermand
2 x Languish

5 Mana:
1 x Angelic Edict
1 x Disciple of the Ring

Land:
5 x Plains
5 x Swamp
5 x Island
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Orzhov Guildgate

Here you go RogueAssassin. It's just another variant of said Grixis deck, but the mill is much more consistent. Pro's/con's over the Grixis version:

Pro's:
- More consistent mill
- Better situational removal for threats likeGaea's Revenge or Kothophed
- Better control vs enchantment reliant decks.
- Celestial Flare means they can't target that Goblin Arsonist they just put in play vs Fleshbag Marauder

Con's
- Less early removal, suffers to aggro more
- No direct burn (not a common need but can occasionally work as a secondary wincon)
- Read the Bones can be a dead card in desperate times.

It will depend on where the meta settles. Grixis works better vs aggro and aura decks, Esper works better vs combo/re animate decks.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:08 pm 
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So you dont think Tragic Arrogance is worth using? I thought that was partly the point besides the flare
And thanks for the quick response


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:13 pm 
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So you dont think Tragic Arrogance is worth using? I thought that was partly the point besides the flare
And thanks for the quick response


It's ok. I'd rather run Languish as it hits the board a turn earlier and deals with the toughness aggro decks have (and combo's with Reave Soul, thanks for that Hakeem!) If they have Gaea's revenge or Erebo's titan only on the board, guess what? TA is then worthless. The idea behind TA is it's usefulness in getting rid of Gaea's and other trouble cards.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:18 pm 
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So you dont think Tragic Arrogance is worth using? I thought that was partly the point besides the flare
And thanks for the quick response


It's ok. I'd rather run Languish as it hits the board a turn earlier and deals with the toughness aggro decks have (and combo's with Reave Soul, thanks for that Hakeem!) If they have Gaea's revenge or Erebo's titan only on the board, guess what? TA is then worthless. The idea behind TA is it's usefulness in getting rid of Gaea's and other trouble cards.


Just got stomped by AI using that grixis deck cuz he did back to back gaea's revenges even with me using Fleshbag in deck. I do love the deck but at times you get severely punished yet it owns aggro all day. Even won against a 95 card deck earlier with mill.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:22 pm 
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So you dont think Tragic Arrogance is worth using? I thought that was partly the point besides the flare
And thanks for the quick response


It's ok. I'd rather run Languish as it hits the board a turn earlier and deals with the toughness aggro decks have (and combo's with Reave Soul, thanks for that Hakeem!) If they have Gaea's revenge or Erebo's titan only on the board, guess what? TA is then worthless. The idea behind TA is it's usefulness in getting rid of Gaea's and other trouble cards.


Just got stomped by AI using that grixis deck cuz he did back to back gaea's revenges even with me using Fleshbag in deck


Yea Esper is definitely the way to go if Gaea's will be a common thing. Celestial Flare is your friend.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:31 pm 
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One thing I wanted to note about tragic arrogance: pacifism effects make it much better. Just slap suppression bonds on a creature and you can target it with TA, turning it into a reliable and total board wipe.

The problem with Esper is that the more you use W and B sorcery speed removal, the less attractive U becomes. There is very little point in playing U if you are tapping out... although it is reasonable to keep some U just for sphinx's tutelage.


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