It is currently Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:38 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

Uphold the Legacy?
Yea 75%  75%  [ 3 ]
No 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
NAI 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Abstain 25%  25%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 4
Total voters : 4
Author Message
 Post subject: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:45 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 755
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Location: Thamad-Katel Empire
Continent: Ikarist
Plane: Thamirelk

Notable characters: Kertes Meskhenet

warnings


legacy (word count: about 6500)


extra

_________________
To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

I apologize in advance for any misuse of English grammar and idiomatic expressions.

“You're going to have to fight, and... you're gonna win!”


Last edited by Huey Nomure on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:28 pm 
Online
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 8594
I think this is a much better introduction to Kertes and her world than "The Deal" or "A Life for a Life" was. The characterizations are strong here, and I feel that Kertes is more of a person here. Admittedly, she doesn't "do" a lot here, but I feel her motivations are clear and she has her own personality. I also like that you explained the whole alignment thing in-world. At first, I thought that section stood out a bit and I was concerned that it wouldn't have anything to do with the actual story here, but I think it plays well into the aspects of alignment that come up in the final two sections.

I admit, I don't like this world. I think you've done a lot of interesting world-building here, and the culture, though largely based on what amounts to skin color-based prejudice, feels deep and real, so my dislike of it has nothing to do with quality, but rather personal taste. My view of this piece is also likely tainted by my opinion of Kertes and where she winds up after this, or what I've seen of it, but as those are not yet voted into the Archive and thus technically not canon, they should not enter into my consideration of the vote for this piece.

I noticed several typos I would like to see fixed before this gets voted in, but assuming those fixes, I'm voting Yea. From a personal standpoint, I doubt this will ever be a storyline or a world that I'm particularly interested in, but this piece, in and of itself, is quite good.

Typos


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:27 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 755
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Aaaand I just noticed how "I will bring hour House to glory again" sounds really... [weird disgusted sound]... when related to the current situation of the U.S. politics :V

Thanks for reading and commenting!

I admit, I don't like this world. I think you've done a lot of interesting world-building here, and the culture, though largely based on what amounts to skin color-based prejudice, feels deep and real, so my dislike of it has nothing to do with quality, but rather personal taste.

I hope it's clear that I consider this kind of discrimination utterly stupid when not outright criminal; unfortunely, aligned people have little reason to doubt the tenets of the Twins, so we have both Kertes (backhandedly but aggressively) and Uab-Tot (gently but firmly) reinforcing discriminating alignment discrimination, and since one of the is the POV it can get a bit muddy. As I said somewhere, I designed alignment to be a combination of skin color and gender discrimination, mixed up to make it sound even more nonsensical and arbitrary.
I totally get why some themes and plot/design choices can be a major turn off; I'll keep trying to make Kertes and the whole Thamad-Katel empire interesting, though, and maybe Dusk will be slightly more engaging... for a little while... hopefully... until he becomes [redacted] :blush:

*fixes typos*

Quote:
"where they found Father's" - You do this sort of thing often throughout this piece, where you refer to Kertes's father just as Father. The problem is, this story is not from Kertes's POV. It's a 3rd person limited POV heavily focused on Kertes. In these instances, however, you make it seem as though Kertes is narrating the piece, and I found it jarring. I would just go with "her father's" or "their father's" in those instances.

I see your point, but I'm not sure this is a mistake, strictly speaking: in this piece (as in many others of mine) the descriptions and names are heavily influenced by the POV's views; if the POV considers a character a bastard undeserving of a name, you can find sentences like "then the bastard twisted the blade" coming up... and I'm pretty sure I've done this before, with this exact epithet. Apart from some aside, everything is filtered through Kertes' POV - describing memories and past history in first person is a bit problematic, and third person is a bit more safe than the alternatives: both first and second persons can put the reader uncomfortably close to the POV, something especially jarring when the protagonist has some pretty twisted views or does nasty things. Not that this can't be useful and maybe necessary to some pieces... but I digress.
To sum it up: when Kertes thinks about Uab-Tot, she doesn't think of the head of the Meskhenet and neither of a (aligned) man, but she thinks of him like Father first and foremost; at least, until her sixteenth's birthday. In that section Kertes starts calling him Uab-Tot and "my father" instead of the more affectionate and childish (?) Father, and that's a detail I intentionally put in the piece.

_________________
To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

I apologize in advance for any misuse of English grammar and idiomatic expressions.

“You're going to have to fight, and... you're gonna win!”


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:13 pm 
Online
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 8594
Aaaand I just noticed how "I will bring hour House to glory again" sounds really... [weird disgusted sound]... when related to the current situation of the U.S. politics :V

Also, it should be "our House" rather than "hour House." I didn't even notice that one the first time.

I admit, I don't like this world. I think you've done a lot of interesting world-building here, and the culture, though largely based on what amounts to skin color-based prejudice, feels deep and real, so my dislike of it has nothing to do with quality, but rather personal taste.

I hope it's clear that I consider this kind of discrimination utterly stupid when not outright criminal; unfortunely, aligned people have little reason to doubt the tenets of the Twins, so we have both Kertes (backhandedly but aggressively) and Uab-Tot (gently but firmly) reinforcing discriminating alignment discrimination, and since one of the is the POV it can get a bit muddy. As I said somewhere, I designed alignment to be a combination of skin color and gender discrimination, mixed up to make it sound even more nonsensical and arbitrary.

Oh, yeah, totally. This is a fantasy world. I never once made the assumption that you, as the author, were arguing for its tenets by any means.

I totally get why some themes and plot/design choices can be a major turn off; I'll keep trying to make Kertes and the whole Thamad-Katel empire interesting, though, and maybe Dusk will be slightly more engaging... for a little while... hopefully... until he becomes [redacted] :blush:

Yeah, I haven't gotten to your Chapter Three yet... sorry about that. Hopefully I'll be able to carve out some time this weekend.


Quote:
"where they found Father's" - You do this sort of thing often throughout this piece, where you refer to Kertes's father just as Father. The problem is, this story is not from Kertes's POV. It's a 3rd person limited POV heavily focused on Kertes. In these instances, however, you make it seem as though Kertes is narrating the piece, and I found it jarring. I would just go with "her father's" or "their father's" in those instances.

I see your point, but I'm not sure this is a mistake, strictly speaking: in this piece (as in many others of mine) the descriptions and names are heavily influenced by the POV's views; if the POV considers a character a bastard undeserving of a name, you can find sentences like "then the bastard twisted the blade" coming up... and I'm pretty sure I've done this before, with this exact epithet. Apart from some aside, everything is filtered through Kertes' POV - describing memories and past history in first person is a bit problematic, and third person is a bit more safe than the alternatives: both first and second persons can put the reader uncomfortably close to the POV, something especially jarring when the protagonist has some pretty twisted views or does nasty things. Not that this can't be useful and maybe necessary to some pieces... but I digress.
To sum it up: when Kertes thinks about Uab-Tot, she doesn't think of the head of the Meskhenet and neither of a (aligned) man, but she thinks of him like Father first and foremost; at least, until her sixteenth's birthday. In that section Kertes starts calling him Uab-Tot and "my father" instead of the more affectionate and childish (?) Father, and that's a detail I intentionally put in the piece.

Fair enough. I guess I didn't notice it so much in previous pieces because I don't think referring to a character as a bastard is completely out of line from a limited third-person narrator. But with Father, which suggests a very specific relationship that in context can only be held but one of two people, it seems very strange.

To me, it is important to make the distinction between a narrator and a character, unless you are literally writing in first person POV. In 3rd person limited, even if the narrator is closely tied to a character, it is not that character. It would be like a Noir Narrator referring to himself in the third person. Imagine Duke Nukem looking in the mirror and, instead of saying "I'm lookin' good!" he says "Duke Nukem was lookin' good!" It just creates a very odd dissonance to me, like a first person narrator talking about themselves in the third person and in the past. Like: "Raven wrote a forum post, but was then interrupted by a phone call from Sister."

That's my take on it, anyway.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:04 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 755
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Aaaand I just noticed how "I will bring hour House to glory again" sounds really... [weird disgusted sound]... when related to the current situation of the U.S. politics :V

Also, it should be "our House" rather than "hour House." I didn't even notice that one the first time.

Nah, I wrote that from memory and typed it badly, in the piece there isn't this peculiar typo :)

Quote:
Yeah, I haven't gotten to your Chapter Three yet... sorry about that. Hopefully I'll be able to carve out some time this weekend.

Oh don't worry, there'll be time... when I put the whole thing up to vote! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-
-sorry. :blush:
Jokes aside, Bad Blood is really going to be Longer Than Expected. I keep adding scenes and scenes and scenes and holy Joker I need to show a lot of things. Fortunately for you, Kertes' apparitions should drop to almost nil after chapter... 5 of 9+, I think.

About "Father": Hm, I'll think more about this. It would be great to have another opinion in this matter, I think, but I probably edit them before weekend starts if nothing happens.

_________________
To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

I apologize in advance for any misuse of English grammar and idiomatic expressions.

“You're going to have to fight, and... you're gonna win!”


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:47 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 04, 2013
Posts: 4954
I'll mainly defer to my comments on the original thread, but the executive summary is that I'm a fan, and it's a "yea" from me!

_________________
"And remember, I'm pullin' for ya, 'cause we're all in this together." - Red Green


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:49 pm 
Online
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 8594
I'll mainly defer to my comments on the original thread, but the executive summary is that I'm a fan, and it's a "yea" from me!

Orcish, what do you think about the "Father" thing in the narration?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:19 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 04, 2013
Posts: 4954
I'll mainly defer to my comments on the original thread, but the executive summary is that I'm a fan, and it's a "yea" from me!

Orcish, what do you think about the "Father" thing in the narration?

I'll have to go back and re-read. I don't remember it sticking out one way or another, the first time through.

EDIT: Was it changed already? I can't seem to find the passages in question.

_________________
"And remember, I'm pullin' for ya, 'cause we're all in this together." - Red Green


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:57 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 755
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Yes, I changed most instances to "her/their father/mother"

_________________
To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

I apologize in advance for any misuse of English grammar and idiomatic expressions.

“You're going to have to fight, and... you're gonna win!”


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Story] Legacy
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:00 pm 
Online
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 8594
I'll mainly defer to my comments on the original thread, but the executive summary is that I'm a fan, and it's a "yea" from me!

Orcish, what do you think about the "Father" thing in the narration?

I'll have to go back and re-read. I don't remember it sticking out one way or another, the first time through.

EDIT: Was it changed already? I can't seem to find the passages in question.

Yes, I changed most instances to "her/their father/mother"

Ahh. Well, there you go.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group