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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:00 am 
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Thanks.

Can anyone clarify the interaction between Longtusk Cub and Hostage Taker? Say my opponent has a 6/6 Longtusk Cub in play, and I play Hostage Taker targeting it. If my opponent removes Hostage Taker next turn, the Cub comes back as a 2/2, since it lost its +1/+1 counters (for the same reason, Kytheon loses its +1/+1 counters when it flips). However if my opponent removes Hostage Taker with the trigger on the stack, does the Cub remain exiled permanently or does it stay in play? If it stays in play, does it stay in play as a 6/6 or 2/2?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:36 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Thanks.

Can anyone clarify the interaction between Longtusk Cub and Hostage Taker? Say my opponent has a 6/6 Longtusk Cub in play, and I play Hostage Taker targeting it. If my opponent removes Hostage Taker next turn, the Cub comes back as a 2/2, since it lost its +1/+1 counters (for the same reason, Kytheon loses its +1/+1 counters when it flips). However if my opponent removes Hostage Taker with the trigger on the stack, does the Cub remain exiled permanently or does it stay in play? If it stays in play, does it stay in play as a 6/6 or 2/2?


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610.3. Some one-shot effects cause an object to change zones “until” a specified event occurs. A second one-shot effect is created immediately after the specified event. This second one-shot effect returns the object to its previous zone.
610.3a If the specified event has already occurred when the initial one-shot effect would cause the object to change zones, the object doesn’t move.


In short, the Cub never leaves the battlefield and stays a 6/6.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Thanks, I got confused with Oblivion Ring which if I'm not mistaken exiles permanently if it's destroyed with the trigger on the stack,


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:56 am 
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Banedon wrote:
Thanks, I got confused with Oblivion Ring which if I'm not mistaken exiles permanently if it's destroyed with the trigger on the stack,


That's the reason they changed most of these effects on new cards to "until" - to prevent the trigger stacking turning temporary effects into permanent effects. The intention of oblivion ring was to imprison the target, not permanently remove it. They are not going to reword the existing card though, so you can still abuse that if you so wish.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:27 am 
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Here's another paper magic question. Say I'm going to lose the game, but I have an infinite loop available (or something like Wandering Fumarole). Can I use it / keep activating it to run down the timer and force a draw?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:13 am 
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I used to play high level competitive ccgs and the judges always have something about stalling and once even in the use of infinite loops so I don’t think so. However once I saw a guy who was ahead and would have won if the timer ran down, his opponent was doing an infinite loop that would eventually win him the game but instead of doing shortcuts , which were allowed to save time, the guy forced him to do every step of the infinite loop so he could see it.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:04 pm 
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104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw

716.4. If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw. (See rules 104.4b and 104.4f.)

Wandering Fumarole is not a Mandantory action, so no, it would not end in a draw. A judge would be called and you'd be forced to pick one or the other (1/4 or 4/1) and stop your shenanigans.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:40 am 
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What happens if I cast Fairgrounds Warden targeting my opponent's Rampaging Ferocidon - do I take one damage?

I'm assuming yes since the Warden would ETB triggering the Ferocidon, then the Warden would exile the Ferocidon but the trigger would still stay there. Gatherer doesn't say that Ferocidon's ability checks for it still being on the board when it resolves. So I take one damage. Correct?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:12 am 
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Banned don you are totes a lone wolf character bedroom the brother hood of the star tango


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
What happens if I cast Fairgrounds Warden targeting my opponent's Rampaging Ferocidon - do I take one damage?

I'm assuming yes since the Warden would ETB triggering the Ferocidon, then the Warden would exile the Ferocidon but the trigger would still stay there. Gatherer doesn't say that Ferocidon's ability checks for it still being on the board when it resolves. So I take one damage. Correct?


Both abilities are triggered abilities so they use The Stack, the trigger is Warden ETB. Regardless of how they are stacked, even if Ferocidon is exiled before it's ability resolves, the damage is still on the stack. You're going to take 1 no matter how things work out


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Thanks for answer! I assuming even if I activate something like Birthing Pod to remove the Fairgrounds Warden with the trigger on the stack, I still take one damage (actually two damage since Pod brings out a new creature)?

Warden ETB trigger on the stack targeting your Ferocidon
Ferocidon trigger on the stack
Let Ferocidon trigger resolve
Activate Pod, remove Warden, new creature comes in, new Ferocidon trigger
Stack collapses, Warden is gone, your Ferocidon is reset (loses all +1/+1 counters etc), I take two damage

... I think :confused:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:57 pm 
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"9/20/2016 The exiled card returns to the battlefield immediately after Fairgrounds Warden leaves the battlefield. Nothing happens between the two events, including state-based actions."

So yeah, you'd trigger the newly returned Ferocidon when the newly Pod'd creature ETB.

IDK where the +1/+1 counters came from but yes, if there were any on Ferocidon before he got exiled, they do not return with him.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:42 pm 
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I'm having second doubts about Fairgrounds Warden again, in particular the Gatherer ruling "The exiled card returns to the battlefield immediately after Fairgrounds Warden leaves the battlefield. Nothing happens between the two events, including state-based actions."

Say your Fairgrounds Warden is exiling my Platinum Angel. I target your Warden with Unfriendly Fire. You respond with Arcbond. I'm at 3 life. Does your Warden die, Angel returns under my control and I stay alive (at -1 life)? Or does the Warden die, Angel return to my control -> dies to Arcbond, and I die as well?

What if I cast Wrath of God instead - does the Angel die? I've been thinking "obviously not" but if the exiled creature returns "instantaneously" then presumably the Angel could return while the Wrath of God is resolving, and therefore die to the Wrath.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
I'm having second doubts about Fairgrounds Warden again, in particular the Gatherer ruling "The exiled card returns to the battlefield immediately after Fairgrounds Warden leaves the battlefield. Nothing happens between the two events, including state-based actions."

Say your Fairgrounds Warden is exiling my Platinum Angel. I target your Warden with Unfriendly Fire. You respond with Arcbond. I'm at 3 life. Does your Warden die, Angel returns under my control and I stay alive (at -1 life)? Or does the Warden die, Angel return to my control -> dies to Arcbond, and I die as well?


I'm pretty sure you're going to die in that scenario. Lethal damage is dealt to Warden by Unfriendly Fire. Warden dies, and before the Arcbond trigger can go on the stack, Angel returns. Arcbond trigger goes on stack, resolves and does 4 damage to everything. After Angel dies due to lethal damage you're still at -1.

Banedon wrote:
What if I cast Wrath of God instead - does the Angel die? I've been thinking "obviously not" but if the exiled creature returns "instantaneously" then presumably the Angel could return while the Wrath of God is resolving, and therefore die to the Wrath.


Wrath of God only goes off once, when it resolves. It Bury's all Creatures, then Angel comes back from exile. That's all.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:24 am 
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I've got one!

My opponent has a gideon of the trials on 3 loyalty as their only creature, and i attempt to cast an unlicensed disintegration on it with an artifact in play, my question is can i redirect the damage to creature Gideon and still kill it?

Spoiler

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Indestructible means it can’t take damage so keeping the loyalty tokens makes sense to me

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:17 pm 
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It says prevent all damage that would be done to him, so... The 3 damage is prevented and no loyalty counters are lost.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:26 pm 
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I've got one!

My opponent has a gideon of the trials on 3 loyalty as their only creature, and i attempt to cast an unlicensed disintegration on it with an artifact in play, my question is can i redirect the damage to creature Gideon and still kill it?

Spoiler

If he's a creature due to his -0 ability, then he has "Prevent all damage..." so, you can redirect the damage, but it will be prevented and Gideon will live.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:42 pm 
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thanks guys, i can confirm it may have not been the best way to spend my turn 3 haha

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:38 pm 
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thanks guys, i can confirm it may have not been the best way to spend my turn 3 haha

What you could have done is waited till your turn and cast it as a sorcery or a combat trick. He wouldn't be a creature so the three damage would have removed the loyalty counters.


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