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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:15 am 
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Serra Ascendant is not early life gain unless you are willing to throw away the card as a chump blocker, basically throwing away one of your win cons. That is why I purposely did not count it, although in hindsight I guess I should have. I forgot the faithmender had lifelink, but the problem is still a problem. A 2/2 lifelink is a heck of a lot better early game than a 1/1 lifelink.

You are also right one the pridemates. I can't believe I didn't realize those weren't in there.


Edit: Since it should be said at some point, every time I post a build I am told felidar sovereign is bad here because it's beginning of turn. I am not sure whether or not I believe that, but it should be stated.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:31 am 
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Well, felidar sovereign is usually a must remove immediately creature and is also a 4/6 vigilant lifelinker if you are not at 40 life, I might have not play it, but It's not like I have any card on side board that I like. besides that, the fact that I have to play 25 plains for this deck with so many 1-2 CMC winning cards, makes me want to run this as the only 6 cmc card, If I don't have the well, my hand gets empty really fast anyways.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:44 pm 
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Carstien wrote:
I cut red completely though, for fun, so I often hit other creatures.


I like the no red version. Note that there is no reason to discuss variations on no red since there is exactly one group of cards that allows you not to run any mountains -- and you need to run that 8cmc g/b removal card that is massively ech compared to any other removal this deck offers.

I tried no blue but losing Allied Strategies was stifling.

We're sooooo close to having a no white variation (I think the r/g/b can make up for no armageddon and a few spot removals), but one w card has to get into the deck and therefore plains have to be in the deck, making it not worth the bother.

But yeah -- no red. I do have a thing for non-standard decks I guess.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:17 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
I am against beacon of immortality in the deck, because your entire turn and :5::w: to double your life is almost always win more instead of being useful.


Yup -- same thing I thought when I first looked at the card. I even tried playing it in the aggro version and found it pretty pointless. I was either winning without it or it didn't help get me out of my hole.

But the variation that I'm playing, with less creatures than I'd normally ever advise to make room for things like Beacon of Immortality, plays very differently. I know U is supposed to be the draw-go color but this deck says draw-go works in W. Early game isn't about the quick pop to 30 - it's about staying alive and maybe getting a bit of damage in. The Serra Ascendants don't usually come online until mid-late game. It's when you attack me and you've gotten me back down to 15 life that I double at instant speed and block with my 1cmc megabeasts. Or maybe I pop my X spell for 3-6 2/2s. Or Chastise your biggest threat. Or when you think I'm suicide running my Ascendants for the desperation lifegain or as a prelude to Armageddon that I Beacon into 5 bonus life and kill your blocker, turning the tide of the battle and never looking back. Assuming I haven't hit my Well yet this deck sits on open land so often that it's kind of no wonder it instills Chastise fear -- there always seems to be 4 open mana whether I've got a Chastise or not.

Also to address that the Elixir of Immortality interferes with the Marshal's Anthem-- true, but you have to keep your purpose clear. If you've got Rhox and an Ascendant out it could be worthwhile to pop the Elixer early, but usually the Elixer will either be used very early or very late. And Anthem will be planned for a late drop, even post Felidar Sovereign.

The name of the game with this deck is patience. It plays like no other deck in dotp, and I would argue that it is at least as effective as the creature heavy aggro version of the deck. Except against gobs. And f gobs. :D


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 2:39 am 
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I loved playing 5 mana. I never got it to work nicely enough imo in 60 card form.

"Starter"
A library for the Rainbow 2013 deck (Mana Mastery)
70 Cards. 41 nonlands (6 creatures, 35 spells). 29 Lands (23 basic; 6 other).
Open this library in the deck planner. (Learn more)
Land
-- 2x Evolving Wilds
-- 4x Terramorphic Expanse
cost
-- 4x Rampant Growth
cost
-- 2x Bant Charm
-- 4x Cultivate
-- 2x Jund Charm
-- 2x Maelstrom Pulse
-- 2x Naya Charm
-- 1x Pernicious Deed
-- 3x Vindicate
cost
-- 3x Day of Judgment
cost
-- 1x Maelstrom Archangel
-- 1x All Suns' Dawn
-- 4x Allied Strategies
-- 1x Finest Hour
-- 1x Maelstrom Nexus
-- 2x Prophetic Bolt
cost
-- 1x Enigma Sphinx
-- 1x Kaervek the Merciless
-- 1x Magister Sphinx
-- 1x Violent Ultimatum
cost
-- 1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
-- 1x Conflux
cost
-- 1x Progenitus
cost
-- 1x Lavalanche

Bassically ramp and destroy. You are most likely on low life when it gets going but you will have won by that point due to the amount of destruction it carries.


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:53 pm 
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Do you have any explanations why the 60 cards version didn't work?
It's not like this deck is full with tutors that you want extra cards in your deck for tutoring purposes...I also never got milled besides vs. dream puppets. there is a slight reason to go for 63 cards to go for 6 forests, but I don't see good reason to go for 70.
overrall...a good selection of cards. I think you should ask yourself what cards do the least for your deck.
for example...finest hour - I'm not sure, but it seems to me that this cards just means that progenitus for example, finish your opponent in one turn instead of two. and that your opponent must handle your creatures as soon as they hit the battlefield, and if he can't it doesn't matter if they finish him in one turn or two. I don't think it is frequent that a huge creature of mine hit opponent one turn, and that I did not proceed to win the match.

you can also balance by: removing 1 ramp, removing 2 removals, removing 1 creature, removing 1 sweeper, removing 1 card draw, and you get about the same picture, but more stable.


Last edited by bentz on Tue May 13, 2014 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:04 pm 
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I honestly haven't touched 2013 in a while. But I remember that Blue mana is a really big issue: no matter what, you always have too few. I believe you have 2 or 3 max in a 60 card deck, and that's in a format where 2 decks (Yeva en Orzov) can destroy lands, crippeling most of your deck by taking those out asap (or go for the white mana)

EDIT: Just installed the game to check for the mana thing and as it turns out, this 70 card deck, runs a wopping 3 islands. Dang, I like 2014s ability to manually adjust mana.


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:10 pm 
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my 60 cards deck runs 3 islands, 5 forests and 4 of the rest. when I was at 63 I ran extra forest. I agree that going to 2 islands is quite bad (some guys built was 6-4-4-4-2 landwise, and I think it is not good).


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:53 pm 
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I think I have 3 Islands in my version, and it's only 60 or 63 cards.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:56 am 
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Started fiddling the other day w/ Berserker Rage and enjoyed a few wham-bam-thank you sir games before running into the way way way too familiar mana problems again. Which is when I finally noticed, don't know how I missed it, that this deck will auto build to 21 land by design. You can include 4 fetch lands but we all know that fetch lands thin the already hard to find lands. What blew my mind was that when you take out the fetch lands the computer does not backfill with standard lands! I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but I was somewhat gratified to discover that - oh, no, I'm not crazy, this deck has a hard time casting 5cmc cards by design. I'm thinking it may be worth it to run 63 cards just to get that one more forest in there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:42 pm 
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IIRC all the DLC decks in 2013's version assumed that you would run the full array of fetchlands and as such, were very low on lands when you pulled them out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Started fiddling the other day w/ Berserker Rage and enjoyed a few wham-bam-thank you sir games before running into the way way way too familiar mana problems again. Which is when I finally noticed, don't know how I missed it, that this deck will auto build to 21 land by design. You can include 4 fetch lands but we all know that fetch lands thin the already hard to find lands. What blew my mind was that when you take out the fetch lands the computer does not backfill with standard lands! I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere, but I was somewhat gratified to discover that - oh, no, I'm not crazy, this deck has a hard time casting 5cmc cards by design. I'm thinking it may be worth it to run 63 cards just to get that one more forest in there.


Adding more cards will not make you draw anymore forest consistently. If you are running 21 lands in a 60 card deck that is 35% lands in your deck, if you run 63 cards with 22 lands your land percentage actually drops slightly more to 34.92%. Unfortunately you will just have to add the expanse back in there if you want to draw lands more consistently.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:11 pm 
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sixty4half wrote:
IIRC all the DLC decks in 2013's version assumed that you would run the full array of fetchlands and as such, were very low on lands when you pulled them out.


Thanks Sixty and Harbinger for clearing that and the whole adding three cards to get one land in lowers your land percentage (for those of us too lazy to do the math before posting :blink:) up. I had seen posts elsewhere on the board about people running only 2 fetchlands and liking the results. Since I'd never considered not running all of the fetch lands I figured I'd give it a try. Didn't even consider that what works for 14 can't really be applied to 13 since 13 won't let you do what you have to do to make the cut work for you (add the land to make up for the cut).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:09 pm 
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With every Duels of the Planeswalkers game receiving the same level of future support(zero), this thread for 2013, the best version, needs more love. It's interesting to look back at older decks given another 4-5 years of brewing experience.

Here's a build I've been trying for Azorius/Aura Servants, one of those I never quite "got" the first time around:

Lands (24)
4 x Evolving Wilds
9 x Island
11 x Plains

Creatures (16)
4 x Invisible Stalker
4 x Kor Spiritdancer
2 x Auramancer
2 x Aven Mimeomancer
2 x Totem-Guide Hartebeest
2 x Sun Titan

Spells (20)
2 x Winds of Rath
2 x Narcolepsy
2 x Pacifism
2 x Mind Control
2 x Daybreak Coronet
2 x Empyrial Armor
2 x Griffin Guide
1 x Triclopean Sight
1 x Eel Umbra
1 x Drake Umbra
1 x Mammoth Umbra
1 x Ophidian Eye
1 x Pariah


I used the Azorius Revenge deck as a starting point, as it has speed, consistency, and surprising staying power. Unfortunately, it also has an insane mana curve with 14(!!!) spells at 5+ mana that only works because it also has extra copies of Academy Researchers and Ophidian Eye that we don't have access to.

Because we can't go as fast as the AI's Revenge build, I tried to focus on slowing the opponent down, card advantage, and keeping our mana curve low. We're running all sixteen 2-CMC cards and extra soft removal. Every creature either brings another card with it, or can be retrieved later by Sun Titan. The problems inherent in finding a healthy mix of creatures and enchantments are fixed by Aven Mimeomancer, a creature that significantly buffs all our 2-drops, Griffin Guide, an enchantment that leaves behind a creature, and Mind Control, a pseudo-creature 2-for-1.

Notable cuts include:
Geist of Saint Traft, which, lacking evasion, was often miserable, and
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, who doesn't bring an extra card with him, nor can he be retrieved by Sun Titan.


Try it out! It seems to run pretty smooth.

For reference, here's the Azorius Revenge deck:

Creatures (19)
4 x Invisible Stalker
4 x Kor Spiritdancer
2 x Academy Researchers
2 x Totem-Guide Hartebeest
2 x Sun Titan
1 x Hannah, Ship's Navigator
1 x Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1 x Celestial Ancient
1 x Godhead of Awe
1 x Sovereigns of Lost Alara

Spells (17)
2 x Daybreak Coronet
2 x Eel Umbra
2 x Empyrial Armor
2 x Ophidian Eye
2 x Drake Umbra
2 x Mammoth Umbra
2 x Winds of Rath
2 x Pacifism
1 x Mind Control


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:32 pm 
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This is a pretty workable build for Celestial Light.

Land (25)
25 x Plains

Creatures (27)
4 x Soul Warden
4 x Serra Ascendant
4 x Ajani's Pridemate
3 x Kemba's Skyguard
2 x Lone Missionary
2 x Knight of Meadowgrain
2 x Kor Cartographer
2 x Seraph of Dawn
2 x Archon of Redemption
2 x Baneslayer Angel

Other (8)
2 x White Sun's Zenith
2 x Swords to Plowshares
1 x Marshall's Anthem
1 x Well of Lost Dreams
1 x Loxodon Warhammer
1 x Swell of Courage


There's some debate about whether Ascendants are really 4-of material. What we're doing here is embracing the fact that we have the lowest potential mana curve outside Goblins.
Vaguely, this list is divided into three groups: Threats, Enablers, and Contingencies. We run four each of 1 and 2-drop threats, and four each of 1 and 2-drop enablers, making mulligans pretty easy. You want to be able to keep 1-landers with confidence. Beyond that, we push enablers relentlessly up the mana curve with tons of enters-play triggers, all the way to Archon of Redemption. This lets our super aggro lifegain deck keep going with midrange value instead of stalling out. We don't have to worry about getting lifelink hits in, and we can trade flyers recklessly while still coming out ahead. The Archon specifically is incredibly important, upgrading Baneslayers and online Ascendants so much that racing us becomes unfeasible.


The contingencies support several alternative attack plans, all of which require lots of mana, which is why we've got both Kor Cartographers in there.
Go wide: White Sun's Zenith, the most important one, since it can be either a combat trick or a surprise finisher.
Go through: Loxodon Warhammer, which solves the Pridemate's primary weakness of Fog Bank.
Go get all our stuff back or draw some cards or something: Marshall's Anthem and Well of Lost Dreams. This is another reason why we have so many enters-play triggers. Our Goblin Piker draws us 4 cards. We can buy back a dead Archon and a dead Baneslayer for 8 mana, getting us 10 life with our upgraded 4/5 and 6/6 flyers.


Try it out! This is the closest I could get to a take-all-comers build. One thing that seemed to hold this deck back from being 1st tier is that its artifact/enchantment hate card, Solemn Offering was strictly sideboard material, being useless against Goblins and almost necessary against Peacekeepers. But playing threats is better than playing answers, so go drown everybody in value flyers and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Born of Flame is my favorite deck across all Duels of the Planeswalkers iterations. You can build it a dozen different ways and they're all fine.

Land (24)
24 x Mountain

Creatures (9)
3 x Chandra's Phoenix
2 x Obsidian Fireheart
2 x Magma Phoenix
2 x Inferno Titan

Other (27)
4 x Chandra's Outrage
4 x Searing Spear
3 x Searing Blaze
3 x Flames of the Blood Hand
2 x Flames of the Firebrand
2 x Flamebreak
2 x Ruby Medallion
2 x Red Sun's Zenith
1 x Blaze
1 x Earthquake
1 x Lightning Bolt
1 x Beacon of Destruction
1 x Fireblast


The idea here is to run enough burn to make board state irrelevant, and enough board control to stop us from flaming out because we couldn't count to 20 in 5 turns. Half of our burn hits both creatures and players, taking decision making out of our hands by keeping the board clear and relentlessly tearing down our opponent's life total at the same time. The most important card for this combined goal is actually Magma Phoenix, because they can't kill it without further advancing both of our strategies. We also have every targeted one-card solution to Baneslayer Angel. You won't be complaining about Blaze being strictly worse than anything when it gets the job done in the clutch.

Keeping the big phoenix in mind, we avoid hamstringing our light creature situation with only four non-returnable creatures, all of which can shrug off a phoenix explosion or a Flamebreak, and three other phoenixes that come back provided only that we continue to do what we were already going to do anyway. Speed can be an issue, so Ruby Medallion enables turn-3 Firehearts/turn-5 Titans, and also lets us buyback and recast small phoenixes even with a poor land situation.

I think it's pretty good, but it's honestly hard to do Born of Flame bad.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:01 pm 
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you need to live the dream of Ogre Battledriver into Titan Inferno

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Pretty sure Battledriver was not in D13.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:02 pm 
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FAKE NEWS

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Pack Instinct:

Land (24)
24 x Forest

Creatures (22)
4 x Garruk's Companion
3 x Leatherback Baloth
3 x Indrik Stomphowler
2 x Sentinel Spider
1 x Garruk's Packleader
1 x Vorapede
1 x Dungrove Elder
1 x Chameleon Colossus
1 x Obstinate Baloth
1 x Master of the Wild Hunt
1 x Primordial Hydra
1 x Primeval Titan
1 x Rampaging Baloths
1 x Ulvenwald Tracker

Other (14)
4 x Nature's Lore
3 x Prey Upon
2 x Cultivate
2 x Blanchwood Armor
2 x Howl of the Night Pack
1 x Predatory Rampage



There are a lot more singletons in here than I'm normally comfortable with for consistency's sake. Most of them are just bomby creatures that we're only given one of anyway, so let's focus briefly on the choice cards that give us our biggest advantages:

3 Indrik Stomphowler - probably the most maindeckable sideboard card in the game, and a reliable 2-for-1
2 Howl of the Nightpack - our biggest win-target-game button, and a reliable 10-for-1
2 Blanchwood Armor - our fastest clock, shuts off damage-based removal, and the best way to get value out of the Companion's Trample
1 Predatory Rampage - a one-sided board wipe to cap our surprisingly dense removal suite

What this gives us is a maindeck that's essentially pre-sideboarded against decks that rely on enchantments and/or spot removal, notably Revenge Odric. It also has surprising staying power against Liliana, since our must-kill creatures scale in size with our forests, which outnumber her swamps, which effectively blanks Tendrils et. al.


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