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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Mafia [Day 5]
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:47 am 
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It has nothing to do with ego it has to do with Eli and KoD stabbing me in the back the second I did something they didn't like.

It was very clear going into day 3 that we had different ideas about how to approach the game going forward so I had my plan and they had their own. Eli had brought up to me that what I wanted to do was going to interfere with his going after CL so he asked me to adjust my plan to better suit his and I complied. Then after it was shown the CL lynch wasn't going anywhere Eli and KoD went after me because they didn't like how I was doing things. I was okay with them not liking what I was doing but I did get very upset with them trying to sabotage it after I had done my best not to interfere with what they were doing.

So yes it felt like I got betrayed and I am never going to be okay with something like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Mafia [Day 5]
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:51 am 
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I always love Scarlet's games. He's one of the best designers we have on these boards, IMO. I'm glad I died early though, because I really didn't have the free time to give this game the attention it deserved.

Well done, once again, Scarlet. I'm already looking forward to the next Touhou Mafia.

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The Clone Saga: A Spider-Man Mafia 3


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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Mafia [Day 5]
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:14 am 
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io wrote:
I think code is a broken strategy when applied correctly by the town, and should be against the rules. The last mod i played with here allowed it and even expressed that he thought it was ineffective (probably specifically referring to the way i was using it, which was establishing cryptological in-thread discussion with two specific players using a key constructed from out-of-game information only we would have access to). I used again here for giggles and because it wasn't listed in the rules. Crypto-claiming is probably the most effective use of code, although not the most fun, and it might not work as well in this community because people would disagree with its effectiveness and refuse to cooperate.

I think that code should be against the rules, and would be happy causing some controversy in the community using it to further that goal. Right now I'm just using code because it sounds fun though.


to be fair you are technically right in that the mod didn't disallow it and that it should be in the ruleset, so the mod couldn't actually modkill you for consistency reasons

Quote:
I think voting blocs are within the spirit of the game. I'm fine with modkilling for going against the spirit of the game, but preferably the mod of the game would warn that they would do that in the sign-up thread or in the rules. I prefer to have some idea of how the mod is going to interact with the game before it happens.

And for the record, rag cult does not require players to play against their win-con any moreso than asking a mafia to NK themselves in. Every individual is still free to decide at any point in time which action they want to take, and which they think will best aid their win condition. I initially devised rag cult as a framework that would aid in my reaching a town win, although it definitely encourages actions that when examined out of context require people to play against a town win. Its an interesting argument, now that I think more about it. I think the strategy is sound, but if someone else thinks it is an ineffective strategy, is that enough to have it considered playing against one's win-condition?


there is the counterpoint that the modkill would make the game less enjoyable than just allowing it to continue (and that it should probably be covered pre-game), which is a counterpoint i could understand even if i don't necessarily agree with it

also you are totally incorrect in my mafia history (the only reason i know about mafia universe is that i've been following their mafia championship since the first season, when they were on 2+2), it's probably not worth me going over because the forums i played at don't exist anymore (not even in archival form, sadly)

io wrote:
We don't have a standard ruleset right now, there's only a very loose structure of mafia players here. In the past, a lot of us came from a much more organized forum that had board-wide rules and practices that mods and players had to abide by, but the current setup is much more loose and casual, for better or for worse. I suspect it will tighten over time as players become more invested in mafia and conflicts arise from the lack of standardization. This community is made mostly of people who are new to mafia, and of some ronins from various other communities, it will probably face a lot of change as it matures.


i think a proactive approach is better here, although at times a reactive approach is necessary

io wrote:
Px2 (the largest and more serious predecessor community to this mafia community) did not use the word lyncher as part of its vocabulary, but mods occasionally dabbled in multiple wincons, which often involved lynching or killing specific players. The idea of having a mafia player that also has a self win condition is that it makes the lines of play for the self/mafia player more interesting. I'm fine with town/self players, but don't think a mafia player should ever be in a position where it is advantageous to out their allies, because that sounds like a headache to balance, and might end up in frustrating gamestates where the town is left to chainlynch mafia for multiple days and everyone feels awkward about it.

Policy lynching is a slow and painful way to curate a meta. Its quicker and less disruptive to games to convince mods to start banning it, and the easiest way to do that is to get people upset with it.


i would be interested in how you would balance a mafia lyncher, because the biggest problem is that it would have to be an alternate win condition (additional is not fun, so that option is out), the target probably has to be vanilla town to be minimally disruptive to the town's chances, and the lyncher role usually leaves the game once the player either has won or cannot win, which punishes mafia for doing what they should want to do

i think the concept is potentially interesting but the execution is too much work for not enough gain

@Elijin: i think you did what you could given the circumstances which i can't blame you for

Zinger2099 wrote:
I always love Scarlet's games. He's one of the best designers we have on these boards, IMO. I'm glad I died early though, because I really didn't have the free time to give this game the attention it deserved.

Well done, once again, Scarlet. I'm already looking forward to the next Touhou Mafia.


the design was interesting, the balance needed some work, but i've seen far worse

i think a peer review could have refined it a bit but that's all in the past


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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Mafia [Day 5]
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:23 am 
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Fable wrote:
....So yes it felt like I got betrayed and I am never going to be okay with something like that.

Lol, betrayed in mafia. That's the nature of the beast. Hell, I betrayed the cop just cuz I didn't care for the way he played too, so it happens all around.
I wonder though, what you guys would have done if I didn't claim a N2 target.


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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Mafia [Day 5]
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:34 am 
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@Fable

You had it set in your mind that both of us were going to go after CL and you were going to go after Fred. You wanted to make a game of it.

At one point even you said you would GI after CL. You didn't. You changes what you did. Just like I changes what I did to better adjust to what I wanted to do thanks to you making yourself a potential target.

You felt betrayed. You disliked that I ignored your request to ignore you. You'll get over.


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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Mafia [Day 5]
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:52 pm 
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I just felt Fable was playing a risky game, and asking his scumbuddies to not give him any attention while he played in an aggressive way. If that risk collapses, you follow the player links to who didn't put any heat on him.

If you felt betrayed its because you think you're infallible and weren't considering the consequences of a failure. None of us are infallible. You played on the edge, that comes with your fellow mafia having to distance themselves from you.


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