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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:19 am 
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I wanted to enter with a new idea but all I can think about is my 200 other planes.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:26 am 
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You can still enter something in case Preadatordetector decides to drop on us.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:52 pm 
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1) Most of the world is underwater. Half of it irradiated with powerstone-type artifacts that absorb the space around them. Most creatures use blue mana, and while there's a sizeable amount of :w: specimens such as birds, the ratio of creatures distributed in the five colors are inverted in order compared to other planes.
2) Visibility
3) The locations in the plane shift between large expanses and a feeling of exposure, to hot, cramped, dark corners of the world. There are "deadzones" filled with irradiated or nutrient-poor water, containing treasures that can be observed in plain view. The dark, cramped corners of the world are filled with life (as well as an airbreather demographic walking in heavy diving suits) and hidden treasures. The knowledge of how the deadzones came to be were lost to all living civilizations.

EDIT: To address the visible problem of :gw: having too little tools and :ur: having too many, the world would likely need to abuse flash, enchantments, and the graveyard, and instant/sorcery cards would have much lower frequency.
gameplay environment


It would be nice to have more contestants actually. It's helpful for this learning experience.

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Currently I'm trying to wrack my mind finding a way to make overload happen in MtG (MtG has a lot of things that Hearthstone can't do, such as splashing, but has memory issues being a major concern) as well as make mechanics for three worldbuilding ideas I had. My post count is increasing and I participate less in games because I'm treating the place more like a laboratory than a forum.


Last edited by preadatordetector on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:23 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Alright, looks like we have our six contestants. I'm going to give Tevish (and everyone else really) until end of day Friday to polish up or finalize their submissions. Then I will start round two on Monday with the first pass from the Brand Team and their questions or suggestions for your worlds.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:37 am 
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Okay, I have the preliminary Brand notes ready if all of you are done fixing up your entries. If you are done, please post so below and when everyone checks in, I'll post the comments.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:57 am 
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Done.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:00 pm 
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I'm done

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:25 pm 
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J'ai fini.

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Currently I'm trying to wrack my mind finding a way to make overload happen in MtG (MtG has a lot of things that Hearthstone can't do, such as splashing, but has memory issues being a major concern) as well as make mechanics for three worldbuilding ideas I had. My post count is increasing and I participate less in games because I'm treating the place more like a laboratory than a forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:39 pm 
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It has been far from my week. I entered this without my best effort and I don't intend to start now. I mean no disrespect to you, but I saw this as a low-effort distraction for myself. After this week, I just don't have the energy for much else.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Your idea could work really well with a tribal set, especially with cards that reference specific creature types. It seems to have a combined feeling of conquest and politics. Why not have your world's theme be about different groups seeking continental domination?

We could also have the foreigners be as diverse as the natives too. There certainly was more than one faction seeking to control the silk trade in colonial history.

Lilystorm should still be free to join in while we're waiting.

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Currently I'm trying to wrack my mind finding a way to make overload happen in MtG (MtG has a lot of things that Hearthstone can't do, such as splashing, but has memory issues being a major concern) as well as make mechanics for three worldbuilding ideas I had. My post count is increasing and I participate less in games because I'm treating the place more like a laboratory than a forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Done, made an edit and ready for the next step.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Well, ready or not, it's end of day so here is what Brand had to say:

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Brand really likes the “Faster than Light” tag-line that sets the tone for the set. However, your description of the level of Magi-Tech is really pushing it in a marketing environment that has seen a recent trip to Kaladesh and at least a noticeable contingent of fans clamoring for a trip to Vryn. The Brand Team would be more comfortable if you could find some way to scale back the tech level of your set somehow. They talked it over with a few members from the Design Team and nobody was really interested in making even more trains that ran on magical monorails for a while. Brand is also curious about the planeswalkers you had in mind for the set. At least one from the current roster would be good, and a Gatewatch member would be ideal, but the Brand Team is willing to try and market two new faces if the story and world can really make up for the risk.

Spoiler

The Brand Team is all over this idea. We’ve not been to a truly artificial world in a really long time, and exploring the ominous desperation that is a world literally crumbling away seems like something that would slot well into their long-range plans. However, an ominous world with slightly pre-steampunk aesthetics reads very much like Innistrad and since Innistrad is an extremely popular property, Brand isn’t willing to risk muddying those waters, even with a plane that has the possibility of actually ending up destroyed in the story. Also, they have questions about that. Would the story end on a more open note, with whatever protagonists finding a way to stabilize things (at least temporarily) in case this set explodes in popularity and a return becomes necessary? Or is Creative really going to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on this plane, even if it is loved by the fans? Also, Brand assumes the local ‘Walker this set is going to be the one currently plugged into the plane, but who is going to show up to save them? With the Gatewatch currently scattered, Brand would like either Gideon or Nissa to end up here on a sort of redemptive path from their post-Bolas fight. If they have a helper from the current roster, that’s fine too as this set can easily support three ‘Walkers. If the helper is forced to make some sort of “switcheroo sacrifice” at the end to save the plane, Brand is tentatively okay with that, but reserves the right of final veto power on who you use if you are killing anyone off who is not new (they were okay with Xenagos that one time because it didn’t really change the status quo too much as he showed up just to die. Elspeth’s death was more nerve-racking.).

Spoiler

The Brand Team talked it over and would really like it if the “face” of this set was Ashiok. A new Red/Green or White/Green local walker would be nice as well. Also, even though Illusions and Nightmares can most certainly be sub-themes of this set, the current block roster has really started becoming tribal heavy as of late. If you can come up with a marketable creature type to represent “unreal” creatures that lives in the White and/or Green slice of the color pie, as well as find a way to maybe show off how Illusions, Nightmares, and these “unreals” coexist beside more traditional characteristic races, the Brand Team would be more comfortable greenlighting this project.

Spoiler

The Brand Team reads this pretty much as “Kamigawa v.2 meets Kung Fu Panda” and they are mildly okay with that. This feels like a very ridged five-faction plane with a characteristic anthropomorphic animal race in charge of each color. But is it all animal people or are there normal characteristic races as well? Having no humans in the set is a risk Magic took once back in the Lor/Moor days, as you mentioned, and that was a pretty tribal set too. Plus, with no humans, your ‘Walker options are way limited and Brand would really like to use Narset to help defray some of the “Kamigawa 2: Electric Boogaloo” feeling this set may engender, mostly because Moonfolk are still being held back as a “Kamigawa only” thing for supplemental products and core sets and having Tamiyo there would be too “on the nose” so to speak. Brand is very curious about what sort of factions you have planned and if they can maybe be used to stage a pre-release event of some sort.

Spoiler

The Brand Team really likes where this is going, but is concerned there won’t be enough conflict to sell the set as anything other than an arthouse project, like Future Sight. If the story could bend around a good villain like Ob Nixilis and a popular protagonist like Tamiyo, maybe you have something, but this world seems like it would be hard to justify a local ‘Walker, and it really needs more than just two outsiders. The plane needs a voice of its own and maybe some good legendary creatures are the answer? The Brand Team would also like to see this world explore the births of the more common characteristic races. Why are there humans, merfolk, vampires, elves, and goblins on so many planes? Brand figures zombies wouldn’t feel right for such a new plane, and you can feel free to swap out one of the other characteristic races for something new as a “twist,” but giving our fans a look at how this sort of “creature road-map” is imprinted among the planes seems very marketable.

Spoiler

This seems like a pretty high concept plane and Brand has a lot of concerns. First and foremost, “water-worlds” come with a host of challenges; color balancing (everything wants to be part blue), flavor issues (what are plains, forests, mountains, swamps….and even islands underwater?) , and resonance problems. The concept of “magically irradiated post-apocalypse world” does have merit however, and water can most certainly be part of that, however too much water leads to a water-world scenario where everything happens mostly on boats and islands and Ixalan is already doing that. Brand would like the face of the set to be a new, fresh, local ‘Walker. Maybe a shark-type merfolk as some people have been asking for more non-human ‘Walkers and Brand want more options besides Kiora for watery ‘Walkers. For the Set’s second ‘Walker, Brand would really like a human from the roster who is not blue or black, preferably not a Gatewatch member as Jace is already doing the boating thing. Brand will also talk with the Design Team to secure Hybrid for your set.


Okay, all that in mind, for Round Two I need two things. First, I need some real world building with factions (if any), cultures, societal interactions, etc. Basically, you are building a document that might be handed off to a team of concept artists who will be taking those words and turning them into art inspirations for your set. What they bring back will likely be the building blocks of your world from here on out so details probably are a plus. If this feels daunting to you, don't worry; there are no actual artists. I'm basically going to return with the "highlights" comments from around the office that may influence things from this point forward. As an example, Ixalan almost had Parrot Griffons because someone turned in some beautiful ones during the concept art process. They were eventually pushed out by dinosaurs who needed that space, but it was close. Also the only reason we have orcs wielding harpoon-anchor axes like the one in Storm Fleet Arsonist is because a concept artist thought it was a cool idea. Anyway, along with the brief, but detailed write-up of your world that incorporates the Brand Teams needs, please make a creature grid that helps Artists and the Design Team understand what sort of things populate your world. For those not in the know, a Creative Creature Grid looks like this:

Image

I'll let this round go until next Friday if we need it to, but if everyone gets done sooner, I've got the Design Team round mostly ready to go.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:34 am 
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Sounds good. And I'll say this much now, was almost thinking of Ashiok being one of the walkers for the project, but Ob Nixilis can fit that role well and Tamiyo would be a natural fit, maybe growing into defending something she wishes to study... Either way will take some time see what I can roll out.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:07 am 
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round 2

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Currently I'm trying to wrack my mind finding a way to make overload happen in MtG (MtG has a lot of things that Hearthstone can't do, such as splashing, but has memory issues being a major concern) as well as make mechanics for three worldbuilding ideas I had. My post count is increasing and I participate less in games because I'm treating the place more like a laboratory than a forum.


Last edited by preadatordetector on Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:03 pm, edited 56 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:27 am 
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Last edited by Huey Nomure on Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Round 2

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Last edited by Tevish Szat on Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:18 am 
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Can you guys spoiler block your posts? The page is getting all wonked out.
AzureShade wrote:

Spoiler

The Brand Team is all over this idea. We’ve not been to a truly artificial world in a really long time, and exploring the ominous desperation that is a world literally crumbling away seems like something that would slot well into their long-range plans. However, an ominous world with slightly pre-steampunk aesthetics reads very much like Innistrad and since Innistrad is an extremely popular property, Brand isn’t willing to risk muddying those waters, even with a plane that has the possibility of actually ending up destroyed in the story. Also, they have questions about that. Would the story end on a more open note, with whatever protagonists finding a way to stabilize things (at least temporarily) in case this set explodes in popularity and a return becomes necessary? Or is Creative really going to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on this plane, even if it is loved by the fans? Also, Brand assumes the local ‘Walker this set is going to be the one currently plugged into the plane, but who is going to show up to save them? With the Gatewatch currently scattered, Brand would like either Gideon or Nissa to end up here on a sort of redemptive path from their post-Bolas fight. If they have a helper from the current roster, that’s fine too as this set can easily support three ‘Walkers. If the helper is forced to make some sort of “switcheroo sacrifice” at the end to save the plane, Brand is tentatively okay with that, but reserves the right of final veto power on who you use if you are killing anyone off who is not new (they were okay with Xenagos that one time because it didn’t really change the status quo too much as he showed up just to die. Elspeth’s death was more nerve-racking.).

Hey, so I'm going to have to address these split between two posts. I just have to add what I can as I can.

So, to start with:
The Aesthetic will be highly distinct from either the victorian aspects of Steampunk or the eastern folklore aesthetic of Innistrad. If anything, it would likely more resemble a highly advanced Bant as it declines, while avoiding the glimmery filigree of Kaladesh.

The ending has, essentially, two possible outcomes. Whatever Brand feels internally works best will dictate the direction it ultimately takes, with the understanding that it will affect the characters in major, irreconcilable ways. Which is as good a segue to get to...

This is NOT a Gatewatch story. While a member can appear, they are not set to be the viewpoint character nor savior. The Native Walker will fill that role, as market research shows less emphasis on the Gatewatch will assuage some fan's concerns. Said character is newly ascended and is NOT the planeswalker being held prisoner. That walker is as foreign as either Nissa or Gideon would be.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Can you guys spoiler block your posts? The page is getting all wonked out.

Nested spoilers don't work out. I tried putting a spoiler around my entire post and it didn't work.

I think my post was nearing the character limit.

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Currently I'm trying to wrack my mind finding a way to make overload happen in MtG (MtG has a lot of things that Hearthstone can't do, such as splashing, but has memory issues being a major concern) as well as make mechanics for three worldbuilding ideas I had. My post count is increasing and I participate less in games because I'm treating the place more like a laboratory than a forum.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Can you guys spoiler block your posts? The page is getting all wonked out.

Nested spoilers don't work out. I tried putting a spoiler around my entire post and it didn't work.

I think my post was nearing the character limit.

You have to use [sblock=] tags, not [spoiler=]tags, if you want them to nest with titles. Sblocks/spoilers with no titles can nest without trouble.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:50 am 
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Barinellos wrote:
This is NOT a Gatewatch story. While a member can appear, they are not set to be the viewpoint character nor savior. The Native Walker will fill that role, as market research shows less emphasis on the Gatewatch will assuage some fan's concerns. Said character is newly ascended and is NOT the planeswalker being held prisoner. That walker is as foreign as either Nissa or Gideon would be.
Brand is okay with that, but they are clear that either Gideon or Nissa needs to be in your set as the "helper" and that you can't kill them off (for Brand reasons).

EDIT: Also, Brand was curious on where you planned on having the story end, more than dictating it one way or the other. They just need to know so that they can set marketing expectations.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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