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 Post subject: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Because if I want to make the player feel like a dragon, you're gonna need a breath weapon.

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Smiting Breath
Instant (R)
Smiting Breath deals 3 damage to each attacking creature.
Whenever two or more creatures attack you, you may pay and exile Smiting Breath from your graveyard. If you do, copy it and cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

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Freezing Breath
Instant (R)
Target player skips his or her next untap step.
Whenever two or more creatures attack you, you may pay and exile Freezing Breath from your graveyard. If you do, copy it and cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

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Choking Breath
Instant (R)
Creatures your opponents control get -2/-2 until end of turn.
Whenever two or more creatures attack you, you may pay and exile Choking Breath from your graveyard. If you do, copy it and cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

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Searing Breath
Instant (R)
Until your next end step, if a source you control would deal damage, it deals twice that much damage instead.
Whenever two or more creatures attack you, you may pay and exile Searing Breath from your graveyard. If you do, copy it and cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

Spoiler

Acid Breath
Instant (R)
Destroy up to two target artifacts, enchantments, planes walkers, and/or nonbasic lands.
Whenever two or more creatures attack you, you may pay and exile Acid Breath from your graveyard. If you do, copy it and cast the copy without paying its mana cost.


Last edited by Arix on Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:43 pm 
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The green one has problems. Its terribly overcosted when disenchanting and kind of bad when hitting planeswalkers (I mean, you aren't really going to eat four of them, are you?), but you cant lower the cost too much because eating four lands is backbreaking. I would like it if was focused some more. I would lower the cost and then either ditch the land destruction or change it to one non-creature permanent.

Both the white and black one seem oppressive; you wrath thier board, and then if they attack you you wrath them again. IDK.

Varying the "flashback" costs might help balance them out.

Is there a way to make a couple of them more offensive? Like maybe choking breath could give opponent's creatures -1/-1 and make your opponents lose life?


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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:54 pm 
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W and B look fine (may need to adjust the 'flashback' costs, but otherwise if aggro lets you get to 5 to 6 mana, they probably weren't a good aggro deck).

More of a concern to me is U and G: U is basically Yosei, the Morning Star x2 for roughly the same manacost, and Yosei has seen play in Legacy Nic Fit Recurring Nightmare shells. G, on the other hand, is too swingy: I'd go with noncreature, nonland permanent and dumb the cost down to 1GG or something.

R is Furnace of Rath, and as such may be overcosted.


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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Both the white and black one seem oppressive; you wrath thier board, and then if they attack you you wrath them again. IDK.
Neither of them really "wrath", especially since they have some control over the flashback. It does make them play around it when determining their attacks, but that's no different to any other big combat trick, except that they know it's coming.

More of a concern to me is U and G: U is basically Yosei, the Morning Star x2 for roughly the same manacost, and Yosei has seen play in Legacy Nic Fit Recurring Nightmare shells.
Yosei can also be reanimated and recurred a whole lot easier - hence its place in a reanimator deck. Sacking, returning, re-sacking and repeat with Yosei is much different to casting twice and that's it. Yosei also taps stuff down on its own, whereas the Breath gives them a bit more control and freedom.

The green one has problems. Its terribly overcosted when disenchanting and kind of bad when hitting planeswalkers (I mean, you aren't really going to eat four of them, are you?), but you cant lower the cost too much because eating four lands is backbreaking. I would like it if was focused some more. I would lower the cost and then either ditch the land destruction or change it to one non-creature permanent.
G, on the other hand, is too swingy: I'd go with noncreature, nonland permanent and dumb the cost down to 1GG or something.
This was a concern, but I figured hitting lands would be a big part of its usage, and once you've hit seven mana it wouldn't be that big a deal (compare Lavaball Trap). It's true that it can hit four, but again, the opponent having control over the flashback is a big deal - there's little stopping them from playing out their big threat before letting you hit the extra two lands.

That said, I'm not absolutely against limiting it. What if it could only hit nonbasics? "Destroy up to two target artifacts, enchantments, planeswalkers, and/or nonbasic lands" is a bit ugly, but it is feasible.

Quote:
Varying the "flashback" costs might help balance them out.
This was my first consideration. What would be some possibilities? Another possibility to consider would be having the flashback only trigger on two or more attacking creatures, giving the opponent a little more wiggle room.

One other possibility, although risky, would be to force a flashback when the opponent attacks, giving them complete control over when it happens. The two problems with that would be memory issues and, of course, having to dump the cost entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:38 pm 
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How do the flashback costs work? Would you have to have both a copy of the spell on the stack as well as have one or more creatures attacking you? Because if you could straight up cast it from the graveyard when an opponent attacks you, all of these cards are ridiculously powerful. It forces the opponent to not attack until they have a strong board presence, and two of them in the graveyard at the same time locks down games, especially when combining :gu: or :rw:.

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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:51 am 
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How do the flashback costs work? Would you have to have both a copy of the spell on the stack as well as have one or more creatures attacking you? Because if you could straight up cast it from the graveyard when an opponent attacks you, all of these cards are ridiculously powerful.
Once they get to your graveyard, you can flash them back when an opponent attacks you.

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It forces the opponent to not attack until they have a strong board presence,
I'm okay with that. As I said, it's the same for any combat trick, only your opponent knows it's coming. It's comparable to Settle the Wreckage - it can absolutely wreck when it goes off, but it swiftly drops in value against an opponent who knows it's coming and can play around it.


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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:47 am 
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The casting cost to flash these is a bit low since graveyard abuse and self milling exists.

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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:23 am 
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Okay, updates (just text versions): Flashback costs have gone up, and the trigger has changed to two or more creatures. Also, Acid Breath no longer hits basic lands.


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 Post subject: Re: [DRD] Breath cycle
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:51 am 
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UPDATE with a possible idea: I based this cycle off the "rattlesnake" effect of a dragon's breath, the "attack me and bad things will happen to you" idea that scares people away from attacking a dragon. To that end, what if these were continually triggering enchantments with smaller effects rather than big two-shots? This could be done two ways:

Smiting Breath
Enchantment
Whenever a creature attacks you, you may pay . If you do, ~ deals 3 damage to that creature.

Smiting Breath
Enchantment
Whenever two or more creatures attack you, you may pay . If you do, ~ deals 3 damage to each attacking creature.

(Costs are just placeholders at the moment)

The first scales with each attacker, letting you pay more for a bigger effect and which the opponent has some control over by essentially deciding the "cap". The second has a simple on/off and higher cost for a more powerful effect which can be played around by only sending one attacker at a time.

Would these versions potentially be better?


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