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 Post subject: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:19 am 
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Reclaim the Jungle
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As long as you control 5 or more basic lands, spells cost :3: more.
Whenever you draw your first card in a turn, if you control 10 or more basic lands, draw another one.
When you control 15 or more basic lands you win the game.

Rework from a piece of **** card that subsequently got burned like pack filler. Now it's a busted card in which the designer got burned like pack filler.

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Last edited by preadatordetector on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:10 am 
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I think the last line of text is the most interesting, and the others aren't really important for the amount of words and mindspace they take up. You could safely trim the card down to the last ability without losing much. In that respect, it's similar to Barren Glory or Battle of Wits.

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:11 am 
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They're all important. The first ability stops your opponent from using stuff against you, I think it's probably the most powerful (and possibly out of color) especially if you can get out a second "reclaim" or you're playing this in a land destruction deck. The second cuts about 6 turns off the timer to get to the third one.


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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:42 am 
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I'm confused. Did you intend this to boost up the cost of ALL spells by 3, just YOUR spells by 3, or just your opponent's spells by 3?

There's just a few small formatting a wording issues otherwise that need to be changed to keep in the format Wizards of the Coast would uses.

It's an OK card. I am not particularly big on alternative win conditions though. I just like beating my opponents silly with big creatures like the Timmy I am ^_^.


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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am 
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I think its a fine card. It lays out a simple objective (get lots of lands) and rewards you for reaching milestones, which is nice. Ultimately, slowing the game down is a conductive and evocative way of reaching the ultimate goal of grinding out 15 lands.

My biggest concern is that the 5-land mode would end up being too oppressive and that the card would just be used as a control staple. I'd also prefer the second milestone reward be symetrical and slow the game down, which i think it used to.

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:57 am 
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I think this is one of your better submissions. Consider aligning the abilities more into green's colour pie (or else moving into a second colour, like blue). Counting lands is green, taxing is white, and additional card draw is blue. This could actually be a neat card. Also, like clustro said, some minor formatting issues (you don't need "draw another one", as just "draw a card" will work).

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Ragnarokio wrote:
I think its a fine card. It lays out a simple objective (get lots of lands) and rewards you for reaching milestones, which is nice. Ultimately, slowing the game down is a conductive and evocative way of reaching the ultimate goal of grinding out 15 lands.

My biggest concern is that the 5-land mode would end up being too oppressive and that the card would just be used as a control staple. I'd also prefer the second milestone reward be symetrical and slow the game down, which i think it used to.

Yeah I apparently had a submission that was too weak for some people in the Pro Tour so this version is buffed to oppressive levels. The second milestone wasn't symmetrical but it doesn't instantly win the game, and currently the card is supposed to transition from a symmetrical effect, a normal ability, and a win condition.

Taxing is white but I'm more focused on flavor rather than function. Green also gotten cards with similar style to the taxing effects with Elephant Grass and stuff, so I think this being tied to lands makes the card green enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Taxing is white but I'm more focused on flavor rather than function. Green also gotten cards with similar style to the taxing effects with Elephant Grass and stuff, so I think this being tied to lands makes the card green enough.


One of the first cards I posted in back on the WAY old YMtC forums was a card that tried to argue for vigilance in blue because of Serra Sphinx. It was then that, after repeated jabs at my design, I was taught that some cards just don't count when looking at colours. Pretty much most everything before Urza's Saga isn't a good thing to base stuff on, as those cards had many MANY designs that were way out of colour pie, such as the Elephant Grass you just noted. In general, things before 7th edition are very suspect, because the rules to the game changed significantly before that. Even the period from here to Time Spiral is a little wobbly at times, but that's mostly because of how the colours have settled into their roles, often on purpose.

The flavour is great - more lands you get, the more the jungle has been reclaiming civilization. That's the core of your card, and it's a good one! However, the abilities that trigger off of having so many lands are very much out of the colour pie. Green doesn't like nature to be restricted, it likes it to spread out, so perhaps the first ability, which is slowing your opponent down, can say "whenever a non-Forest land is tapped for mana, that land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step". This would tax things in a way similar to Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger. Green loves that resources can be very plentiful, so perhaps instead of drawing an extra card per turn, make it "Whenever a land enters the battlefield, if you control ten or more lands, draw a card." which feels like Oracle of Mul Daya or a souped up Tireless Tracker. Green doesn't tend to cheat very much, if it is, it's just cheating on making sudden giant creatures. Perhaps instead of "win the game" it could be an ability so strong that it might as well win you the game. What if it was "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control 15 or more lands, search your library for any number of creature cards and put them onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.". That ability pretty much wins the game, except under special circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:49 pm 
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the colour pie shifts on a set to set basis and i think a better question than "is this in colour?" is "does this card contribute positively to this colour in the formats its involved in?"

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Yarium wrote:
This would tax things in a way similar to Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger.

Even that isn't great. The set was about things being corrupted and that ability is a dark mirror of his other ability, which is in green. The same can be said for blue making the opponent discard their hand with Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and white making the opponent lose life with Suture Priest.


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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Yarium wrote:
This would tax things in a way similar to Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger.

Even that isn't great. The set was about things being corrupted and that ability is a dark mirror of his other ability, which is in green. The same can be said for blue making the opponent discard their hand with Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and white making the opponent lose life with Suture Priest.

It is Really hard for green to tax things in green-like ways, isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:05 pm 
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I don't really want to make an argument in this thread, which is why I moved this into a spoiler tag.
Normally these arguments take a lot of time and detract from discussion about the card itself.

Spoiler

Historically, there were several ecosystems that provided very important roles but were seen as a menace towards conventional civilization. Wetlands are a very major example here. Filled with dense vegetation and far from suitable as dry land, wetlands were often victims of being drained and turned into farmland. However, these places are important for controlling flooding and managing natural disasters.

In modern culture, jungles typically refer to areas of extremely dense vegetation. Like wetlands except less wet. They still are targets of deforestation because not only did they impose an extreme difficulty towards agriculture and cities, they also have a lot of valuable resources, such as mahogany or even gold.

Jungle preservation is only seriously considered by economists because of the potential for creating new medicines out of species that are currently endangered by the above activities. Because of their biodiversity, they are good resources for research in medicine and biology.

Because of this, I decided to have the card start with an ability that embodies the problems dense vegetation regions place on agricultural life, then go into the benefits those places have for research. Finally, I wanted to make a win condition because that was the original purpose of the card, and I think that win conditions of this kind are within green's reach.

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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Here are some example of green abilities that have been used to represent dense vegetation
Dense Canopy / Bower Passage
Dense Foliage / Shapers' Sanctuary
Familiar Ground
You could also give all of your creatures reach or some other effect to defend against flyers.

Sorry if I am not understanding what you are saying about agricultural life.


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 Post subject: Re: Reclaim the Jungle
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:52 am 
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Well Burn at the Stake it is for trying to make a green instant win condition.

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