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 Post subject: Sin Prodder + Aftermath?
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:13 am 
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So, with the changes to how CMC is calculated on Split cards, I wonder if Sin Prodder is playable again (probably not since we live in a Magma Spray world).


Creatures:
4 x Walking Ballista
4 x Scrapheap Scrounger
4 x Sin Prodder
4 x Goblin Dark-Dwellers

Spells:
4 x Magma Spray
4 x Shock
4 x Cut // Ribbons
4 x Unlicensed Disintegration
4 x Never // Return

Land:
10 x Mountain
4 x Smoldering Marsh
4 x Foreboding Ruins
2 x Swamp

Other:
4 x XXXXXXXXX


So, I sorta need to both find four more cards and craft something of a sideboard. Any ideas?

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Sorry to be the one to break this to you, but I'm not sure Sin Prodder on the whole is such a good idea...
I played with Sin Prodder in my SOI GameDay Jund deck along side The Gitrog Monster. In my experience, if I didn't have a frog out I felt like most of the time the Sin Prodder just gave too much of a substantial influence to the opponent.

Let's not toss the idea out completely though. I still greatly encourage you to try it (brewing is awesome, and many new cards have come out since SOI), and if we can find some way to eke extra value out of the Sin Prodder trigger it might turn out to be worth it. Just be forewarned that it may not work out as well as you might have imagined.

That said I think there are a few questionable selections in your deck:
Walking Ballista is a free pitch of a relevant card for them since its cmc is 0 off the Sin Prodder trigger reveal.
Goblin Dark-Dwellers in a 20 land deck is just asking to be mana screwed. I understand most of the rest of your deck is cheap and it is great synergy with pitched (or cast spells), but 20 lands is just too few for a 5 drop and your opponent is going to be making you discard half your lands (your opponent sees half your cards with a Sin Prodder out, whether you get to keep a land depends on if it's the first or second card on top of your deck at the start of your turn).

Magma Spray and Shock may be too efficient for their own good in a Sin Prodder deck, at least as a full 8 of. You'd probably be correct to keep some number of them, but they're almost free pitches for your opponent. 1 damage against a deck that isn't hyper aggressive (yours is trying to build incremental value off of Sin Prodder's triggers) isn't that much to worry about.

Your concept (hitting split cards off Sin Prodder triggers) is good although Cut // Ribbons is "only" 4 damage off a Sin Prodder...not sure if it's as big a whammy impact as you might have liked. Still probably worth it.

I think for Sin Prodder to work you want a little more control over the top of your deck or ways to mitigate losing low cost cards (like lands) off the top of your deck.
With that in mind I would consider Jund here.
The Gitrog Monster puts in value as I mentioned before. We also have the sweet new bicycle lands: Canyon Slough and Sheltered Thicket that can pull triple duty (land, or cycle, or cycle+frog). Note that if you end up playing a midrange deck with the frog I highly recommend 26 lands since the frog keeps you from flooding.
Vizier of the Menagerie can help a little. It doesn't actually help if there is a land or non-creature on top and it's not as useful if there is a large creature on top (because you might want to leave it there to possibly ding your opponent?). The real upside Vizier brings is if there's a small(ish) creature on top of your library so you can cast that to get it out of the way of next turn's Sin Prodder Trigger. Also he's color fixing for creatures, don't forget that. It's relevant in a 3 color deck.
If you can keep your deck more creature based Lifecrafter's Bestiary is rather absurd. With the Sin Prodder it can help you set up your triggers, without Sin Prodder it's still an AMAZING card selection and cardflow engine (speaking from experience with my cat deck this weekend...admittedly that deck probably has a lower curve than this version of the Sin Prodder deck I'm suggesting will probably turn out).
Speaking of cycling, that's another good way to get value off of Sin Prodder by cheesing the cmc with another also relevant and cheaper cost. Archfiend of Ifnir, Shefet Monitor, maaaaaybe Greater Sandwurm all seem like things to at least consider.
Ramp spells in green let you hit your beefy midrange cards sooner. Channeler Initiate or Servant of the Conduit sound about right.

More graveyard shenanigans: Embalm:
Heart-Piercer Manticore sure it's not worth too much off a Sin Prodder trigger, but it can sit in your graveyard and threaten to reach out and touch your opponent for the last few points of damage (or possibly kill an annoying creature).
Honored Hydra is probably just never going to get pitched to dome your opponent off Sin Prodder, but then, hey, they have to deal with a 6/6 trampler twice.

Back on your original plan, being in Jund gives you access to more split cards too:
Heaven // Earth Really doesn't play nice with Sin Prodder, being only worth 3 damage. That said it's still a board wipe you can cast from your yard (as long as you don't mind not hitting fliers)
Mouth // Feed Seems pretty solid, lots of synergy
Rags // Riches either you get a small board wipe or they take 13. They probably won't ever make you pitch this...This may be sideboard worthy though, against a faster deck this is still a 4 mana wrath.

Of course, all my suggestions here have gutted your low end and made your deck almost unplayable curve-wise, but they are at least some ideas to ruminate on.

Happy brewing! I hope you come up with something cool. :)


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Here was my original inspirational thought for this set-up:

Sin Prodder + Cut // Ribbons. Either they let me draw it and I get my 4 damage creature removal spell while they stare down a creature with menace, or they take 4 to the face and I can still cast the Aftermath part when I need to later.

Walking Ballista was in there because I already tossed in Scrapheap Scrounger and I needed more artifacts of some kind to make Unlicensed Disintegration worth playing.

Goblin Dark-Dwellers was just another big 5 CMC menace body that let me either hit my opponent for five off the Prodder or let me recast an errant 3 or less CMC spell that got pitched or cast earlier. I'm perfectly fine using those last four slots for more land to help get me over the 5 CMC hump.

One of the biggest reservations I have with Sin Prodder is that he looks like he wants to go in a quick aggro deck, but really he'd shine in a more mid-range style build, except that he's really fragile and none of the good mid-range stuff wants to be tossed in the graveyard and mid-range decks need mana, which you are losing a lot of to the Prodder. Like, he's just shy of being useful anywhere.....but I really like him for some weird reason.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:01 pm 
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You could try with Bedlam Reveler. Prodder also has synergy with Madness (in that the cards cost more).
Alternatively, try some dredge-esque aggro thing with Prized Amalgam and Dread Wanderer maybe.
There's also cycling as an interesting option.

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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:24 am 
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Here's a thought. If I cut Goblin Dark-Dwellers for Bedlam Reveler then, outside of Scrapheap Scrounger, I've got a respectable pile of devils in my deck. One of Sin Prodder's weakness is that it's 2 toughness makes it really vulnerable to both Shock and Magma Spray. Also I need more than just four artifacts in my deck if I cut Walking Ballista. What if I swap out the Ballista with Metallic Mimic? It curves nicely into Prodder, making him beefy enough to actually be threatening on offense, gives Reveler a little more oomph, and is a Shock on Prodder's reveal.

So, something like this:

Creatures:
4 x Metallic Mimic
4 x Scrapheap Scrounger
4 x Sin Prodder
4 x Bedlam Reveler

Spells:
4 x Magma Spray
4 x Shock
4 x Cut // Ribbons
4 x Never // Return
4 x Unlicensed Disintegration

Land:
10 x Mountain
4 x Foreboding Ruins
4 x Smoldering Marsh
2 x Swamp


Still four slots shy but technically less mana intensive as well. Would it be too cute to add in Gibbering Fiend? With Metallic Mimic he's a little more threatening, he Shocks off of Prodder, he pings for one at least once, and with my opponent's help via Prodder, I may hit Delirium more often than not since I have at least eight artifact creatures and lots of instants and sorceries.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:18 pm 
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If you add lands and rework the deck a bit, Combustible Gearhulk has an effect similar to sin prodder.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:23 am 
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Okay, so I went with the cutesy build running a play-set of Gibbering Fiend. I was actually surprised at the number of games that were won on the back of these little guys. Having at least two of them out really put a lot of pressure on some of my opponents.

As for records and reviews, the tally at the end of the day was 2-2, which is about fair for a cute devil tribal concoction.

Match 1 - Devils VS. 4-color Super Friends
I was not really prepared for this deck as only one person in my area actually plays it and he's been away for a while with college. With too many 'Walkers hitting the board supported by Oath of Nissa and Oath of Gideon[/c] it was really hard to keep up much pressure and I ultimately lost under waves of Ultimates and tokens. It really didn't help that in game one I drew into three of my copies of Bedlam Reveler and didn't really get enough low end stuff to support playing even one of them in a timely manner. Game two was just the most painful mana screw where I was stuck at two dirt with a hand full of three drops and sadness.

Match 2 - Devils VS. Aetherworks Marvel
I did better against Marvel than I originally expected. Lost Legacy from the sideboard really pulled its own weight ripping out those problem Ulamogs. Game one I was crushed by said Ulamogs. Game two saw my opponent die to multiple Gibbering Fiend. Game three came down to the wire and it was a Whirler Virtuoso backed by four energy and able to make a single chump blocker that saved the day and spelled my doom. Honestly, I never thought Woodweaver's Puzzleknot could be so annoying. It definitely tipped the balance of the game more than the deck's signature card.

Match 3 - Devils VS. Constrictor
I ended up winning this match. Game one saw enough kill spells and strong attacks to get the job done. Game two went the other way hard as my opponent Turn 1'd an elephant, Turn 2'd Attune followed by that same elephant, Turn 3'd Nissa, then Turn 4'd two constrictors and proceeded to minus nissa and put three +1/+1 counters on everything. It was a sad game for me. Game three went much better and I ended up winning on my opponent's upkeep due to a double dose of Gibbering Fiend damage.

Round 4 - Devils VS. Allies
Kind of an older Standard deck, and it showed. It was paced slow enough that I could remove the problem Allies early and get solid board position both games. In the end, my Devils were just more aggressive and the incremental life loss/gain was just too slow to make up for the beatings.

EDIT: I don't really think this deck has the legs I was hoping for in this new Standard. It needs better Aftermath cards and better...I don't know, everything else. The top tier decks are just really explosive and have few holes to play through. Overall though, this was fun to play in the matches with similar power level decks.

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magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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