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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:14 am 
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Niklor wrote:
nahaeei wrote:
Niklor wrote:

I never claimed that a child doesn't have a father because the child hasn't seen his father.

Also, still haven't explained why this is the real issue.

The proof you have that someone is your father, generally, is that you've been told that this person is your father your whole life. Granted, that isn't true for everyone. Circumstances differ, but most people are instructed. It's the same same way a child learns anything. Someone instructs them either directly or indirectly. This is the process. It's a simple, repetitious step.


and who is that very person by whom we are told this very thing that Mr.such and such is your father ? who is it ? it is our real mother.

Just like you learn who is your father. You take the version of your mother and you believe that "He is my father." Otherwise there is no other way. How can you know your father? The only means is his mother recommends, "My dear boy, he is your father." And that is perfect, that's all. Otherwise you cannot know who is your father.

same you have to follow real authority. "Whatever You have spoken, I accept it," Then there is no difficulty.

Otherwise, if you makes research, "Who is my father?" go on searching for life; you'll never find your father.


I mean, the father might say he is your father, siblings might say he is your father, various people growing up may indicate him as your father. There is no direct chain of mother says this person is father therefore he is. And again, that ignores the fact she might deceive you for whatever reason or not even tell you.

Also, you've apparently reduced your entire argument to you have to take it on faith. That's fine and all, though clearly it must bring an end to our discussion, especially since at this point we seem to be talking past each other. Best of luck to you with this.


so that is your misfortune. but the only process is our real mother. and if she also want to cheat you then there is no hope. but you will never understand this thing that who is your real father at your own.

cuz who better knows your real father other then your real mother ? your relatives ? what they knows ? were they present they your mother was getting pregnant ? so only process is hearing from our real mother.

and if you believe other people then you will be cheated and if you go at your own then you will never find your real fathre. that is all.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:24 am 
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I don't know who my real mother is.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Mown wrote:
I don't know who my real mother is.


so doctors and nurses have seen your real mother. cuz they have seen you when you were coming out of her womb.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:55 pm 
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nahaeei wrote:
Niklor wrote:
nahaeei wrote:

every child has mother. and process is the same of knowing our real father. and as far as question of knowing of our real mother. so doctors and nurses has seen your real mother. when you come out from her womb. that is the way to know your real mother.

and if you think that our mother is capable to tell this thing that who is our real father. than you tell us the damn process by which we understand this thing that who is our real father. come on friend you tell us that how child will understnad this thing that who is his real father ? you tell us the process by which we understnad this thing that who is our real fathre.


This thought feels flimsy since even if we have seen our mother we may not recall that moment. Other people may insist that an individual is your mother, but there can be no certainty on your part, especially given we cannot recall all of our life, as you yourself opened with. And again, a child can be deceived by those who might claim to be its mother and father.

You understand who is your father by being taught who your father is. Sometimes, it is revealed that this person was not your father, whether by admission or some form of testing later in life. It probably doesn't occur to most children that the person they know as father might not be father. But that doesn't change the fact it might not be. And the same is equally true for mother, though I will allow the thought that it is possible that before we lost our younger experiences we might have known the mother. Still, it is true that for whatever reason, even if one could identify the mother through long forgotten memories, she might deceive you or even refuse to tell you who the father is.

Also, we should probably just abandon the symbolism of this discussion, since there isn't a whole lot to be gained about delving deeper into the whole mother/father thing. Beyond that, though, there wasn't much, which is mostly why I addressed it.

Like I was saying at the start, are you just arguing that creation implies creator? I can still understand that, just trying to see if that was your first point.


`1st of all dont avoid the real issue and tell us that how child will understand this thing that who is his real father ? you tell us the process in your way. do you have any other way ? then explain it here.

come on friend. ( after all its an open challenge ) tell us if there is any other process by which we understand this thing that who is our real father.

and no saying that there is no father before your birth cuz you never seen him before your birth. and you were dropped from the sky into the womb of your mother. that is not possible.

It's pretty easy to determine who your father is. Just have cameras follow your mother around to see that there are no other possible fathers. Continue filming continuously through the birth process and through every moment of the child's life right up until you show the child the film. Then there is no room for doubt.
Or you could do a paternity test. That's easier.
Then point is that you don't need to rely on anybody's say so. You don't need to take it on faith. Only a fool places more value in faith than evidence. It is true that any evidence you see could be fake. But that is why you should demand more evidence. It still may be fake. In the end you will have to stop looking, and accept whatever possibility has the most evidence supporting it. Then you must accept that you still may be wrong, but that you are probably not.
There is no need to come up with any mystical force to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. Doing that is intellectual cowardice. To create or accept a fiction simply because it makes you feel better or offers an explanation when you had none is emotional cowardice. Do not create fictions for yourself. Accept reality for what it is as best you know it and move on. Only then will you be satisfied.
Reject the teachings of faith which are unsupported by evidence. Only then can you move on.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:47 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
nahaeei wrote:
Niklor wrote:

This thought feels flimsy since even if we have seen our mother we may not recall that moment. Other people may insist that an individual is your mother, but there can be no certainty on your part, especially given we cannot recall all of our life, as you yourself opened with. And again, a child can be deceived by those who might claim to be its mother and father.

You understand who is your father by being taught who your father is. Sometimes, it is revealed that this person was not your father, whether by admission or some form of testing later in life. It probably doesn't occur to most children that the person they know as father might not be father. But that doesn't change the fact it might not be. And the same is equally true for mother, though I will allow the thought that it is possible that before we lost our younger experiences we might have known the mother. Still, it is true that for whatever reason, even if one could identify the mother through long forgotten memories, she might deceive you or even refuse to tell you who the father is.

Also, we should probably just abandon the symbolism of this discussion, since there isn't a whole lot to be gained about delving deeper into the whole mother/father thing. Beyond that, though, there wasn't much, which is mostly why I addressed it.

Like I was saying at the start, are you just arguing that creation implies creator? I can still understand that, just trying to see if that was your first point.


`1st of all dont avoid the real issue and tell us that how child will understand this thing that who is his real father ? you tell us the process in your way. do you have any other way ? then explain it here.

come on friend. ( after all its an open challenge ) tell us if there is any other process by which we understand this thing that who is our real father.

and no saying that there is no father before your birth cuz you never seen him before your birth. and you were dropped from the sky into the womb of your mother. that is not possible.

It's pretty easy to determine who your father is. Just have cameras follow your mother around to see that there are no other possible fathers. Continue filming continuously through the birth process and through every moment of the child's life right up until you show the child the film. Then there is no room for doubt.
Or you could do a paternity test. That's easier.
Then point is that you don't need to rely on anybody's say so. You don't need to take it on faith. Only a fool places more value in faith than evidence. It is true that any evidence you see could be fake. But that is why you should demand more evidence. It still may be fake. In the end you will have to stop looking, and accept whatever possibility has the most evidence supporting it. Then you must accept that you still may be wrong, but that you are probably not.
There is no need to come up with any mystical force to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. Doing that is intellectual cowardice. To create or accept a fiction simply because it makes you feel better or offers an explanation when you had none is emotional cowardice. Do not create fictions for yourself. Accept reality for what it is as best you know it and move on. Only then will you be satisfied.
Reject the teachings of faith which are unsupported by evidence. Only then can you move on.


and what is that intectual cowardice ? what is it ? and no saying that there was no father before your birth. and do you know every single link within your family line ?

alright tell me name of the 10 grandfather within your family lineage. and if there is `1 missing link then i kick on your face. that is all.

and if you intectually find out every single fathers, fathers, fathers, and his father then you will find no one was dropped from the sky into the womb of his/her mother. and at the top you will find Krishna is original seed giving father. who gave the first push.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:24 am 
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The intellectual cowardice is inventing a false solution to fill in the gaps in your knowledge.
This paternal fixation is really not getting you anywhere. You need to state your argument plainly, without allegory if you want to be taken seriously.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:35 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
The intellectual cowardice is inventing a false solution to fill in the gaps in your knowledge.
This paternal fixation is really not getting you anywhere. You need to state your argument plainly, without allegory if you want to be taken seriously.


and why do you shift burdon of proof on me ? cuz i dont give any false solutions. but it is you who is doing such thing. simply tell us the name of your 10 grandfather within your family linage. come on sir.

and if there is `1 missing link than i will kick on your face. tell me `1st of all name of your 10th grandfather within your family line age and finish the business. and if you cannot do it then you are the one who is at intectuall cowardice for it is you who says that withing your family linage your 10th grandfather was droopped from the sky into the womb of his mother.

that is your nonsense.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 5:03 am 
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nahaeei wrote:
Mown wrote:
I don't know who my real mother is.


so doctors and nurses have seen your real mother. cuz they have seen you when you were coming out of her womb.

Why should I trust the doctors and nurses?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 5:06 am 
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Mown wrote:
nahaeei wrote:
Mown wrote:
I don't know who my real mother is.


so doctors and nurses have seen your real mother. cuz they have seen you when you were coming out of her womb.

Why should I trust the doctors and nurses?


cuz they have seen you when you were coming out of womb of your real mother.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 5:19 am 
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That doesn't make them trustworthy. If I can't trust my mother to be honest about who my father is, why should I trust the doctors to tell me who my mother is?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:48 am 
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Mown wrote:
That doesn't make them trustworthy. If I can't trust my mother to be honest about who my father is, why should I trust the doctors to tell me who my mother is?


and there is no other process to know our real father other than approaching our real mother. otherwise there is no other way.

and if you think that there is any other process by which you can find out your real father than explain it now. come on. explain other way ( aka process ) by which you can understand it that who is our real father.

come on friend do it quickly. and finish the business.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:55 am 
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I'm asking you how you know who your real mother is. If you can't trust your mother to explain who your real father is, how can you trust your doctor to explain who your real mother is?
This is why I called you out on your English. You're bordering on illiteracy with how much you struggle to follow a simple conversation, which is why I can't give you answers to your questions. Because you don't understand my responses.

also like, I can actually just take my father with me to a hospital to compare our DNA if that is all you want to know. I can do this even if my mother happens to be dead.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:30 am 
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Mown wrote:
I'm asking you how you know who your real mother is. If you can't trust your mother to explain who your real father is, how can you trust your doctor to explain who your real mother is?
This is why I called you out on your English. You're bordering on illiteracy with how much you struggle to follow a simple conversation, which is why I can't give you answers to your questions. Because you don't understand my responses.

also like, I can actually just take my father with me to a hospital to compare our DNA if that is all you want to know. I can do this even if my mother happens to be dead.


and if you dont trust the doctors and relatives even in the matter of your mum than no problem. you go on searching for your father but you will never find him.

and now if you have any other process by then you explain it. by which we can understand our real father. the only mean is sruti ( hearing )


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:32 am 
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I don't trust sruti either.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:15 am 
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Mown wrote:
I don't trust sruti either.


and now You can avoid the creator, but you cannot say He doesn't exist. Whether or not you accept the creator's authority is your business; but you cannot say there is no creator.

For example :- there are so many outlaws who say, "We don't want to obey the government." If you don't like the government, that is your business. But there is a government -- you can't deny that.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:17 am 
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i am sorry i missed this thread for this long you are a marvelous person and i love you a lot nahaeei

what would you like me to do?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:28 am 
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nahaeei wrote:
Mown wrote:
I don't trust sruti either.


and now You can avoid the creator, but you cannot say He doesn't exist. Whether or not you accept the creator's authority is your business; but you cannot say there is no creator.

For example :- there are so many outlaws who say, "We don't want to obey the government." If you don't like the government, that is your business. But there is a government -- you can't deny that.

I've never made a comment on the validity of his existence to begin with. He may very well exist. I also have absolutely no compelling reason to believe that he actually does, so if he does exist, he should stop being completely insignificant. The plausibility of his existence will occupy my mind as much as the likelihood that YHWH, Vishnu, Buddha, Odin, Zeus or Jesus is real. Which is to say, not in the slightest. Unlike the government, which visibly interferes with my world on a regular basis in a way that I can consistently and personally verify.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:40 am 
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Mown wrote:
nahaeei wrote:
Mown wrote:
I don't trust sruti either.


and now You can avoid the creator, but you cannot say He doesn't exist. Whether or not you accept the creator's authority is your business; but you cannot say there is no creator.

For example :- there are so many outlaws who say, "We don't want to obey the government." If you don't like the government, that is your business. But there is a government -- you can't deny that.

I've never made a comment on the validity of his existence to begin with. He may very well exist. I also have absolutely no compelling reason to believe that he actually does, so if he does exist, he should stop being completely insignificant. The plausibility of his existence will occupy my mind as much as the likelihood that YHWH, Vishnu, Buddha, Odin, Zeus or Jesus is real. Which is to say, not in the slightest. Unlike the government, which visibly interferes with my world on a regular basis in a way that I can consistently and personally verify.


and there is no validity of your intelligence also. thus there is no intelligence also. and if there any intelligence at all. then ( fertile brain ) recall everything which you have thought or done on each second within`1 minute. and prove it that there is intelligence also.

come on ( fertile brain ) now come to ground and now ( now recall everything ) aka prove yourself. ( after all its an open challenge )


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:48 am 
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Ragnarokio wrote:
i am sorry i missed this thread for this long you are a marvelous person and i love you a lot nahaeei

what would you like me to do?


im sorry my ( dear ) girl but im an ugly fool who is very very dull and poor also. kindly avoid me. and there are many real marvelous boys within this community. make friendship with them. maybe your life will be more better. thank you for understanding it quickly.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:52 am 
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Mown wrote:
the human mind doesn't preserve useless information

It's the first thing I said in this thread. I mean, at least I can remember things that happened less than a week ago.

Why are you even equating intelligence with perfect recollection to begin with?
Intelligence: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
I'm writing to you in English, a language I learned.
ergo, I have some degree of intelligence.
There, I validated it.

This thread is giving me flashbacks to Bastion of Twilight.

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